Oakmont par 3, 301 yds

[Deleted member 21784]

As other have said above though - it doesn't really matter what the par is. The two scenarios you mentioned are exactly the same if you just change it to "trying to get a 3 and avoid making 4".

I'm sure we've had holes before that were 300 yard driveable par 4s and people moan how easy it is and pointless because everyone makes birdie. So they can't win really.

Not sure here. Take 13 at Augusta. They have lengthened it to make it less and less chance of eagle chance.. because under par matters so much it was a chance for the long hitters to get under par

Why not just make it a par 4 and leave where it is?

If this was a driveable par 4 people would miss still and get par.. which wouldn't be a card wrecker compared

 

[Deleted member 18645]

And if it was a par-4, all the players would be licking their lips about trying to drive it and make a 2 or 3. So what's the difference apart from imaginary media hype?

 

[Deleted member 21784]

And if it was a par-4, all the players would be licking their lips about trying to drive it and make a 2 or 3. So what's the difference apart from imaginary media hype?

If it was a 4 you might see about 2 eagles across the week. -2 for the card. Giving someone a chance to catch the field.. prob see majority 'birdies' but a few pars aswell.. but those pars wouldn't lose them a shot..

The us open is tough as hell and avoiding bogeys can be key. It's hard to make up shots. This is a card wrecker of a hole on a tough course

 

[Swango1980]

And if it was a par-4, all the players would be licking their lips about trying to drive it and make a 2 or 3. So what's the difference apart from imaginary media hype?

You summed it up yourself.

Par 3, players knees are knocking at the high odds they could drop a shot on their score.

Par 4, they get excited because there is a real chance of improving their score relative to the field.

If it was last hole, and guy in final group had a 1 shot lead, if it was a Par 4 you could see a scenario where the player could just lay up off tee, pitch on, 2 putts, job done.

Par 3, that isn't a viable option.

If this 301 yard hole was a Par 4, I doubt anybody would create a separate thread for it, so it must be meaningful. Perhaps it is subjective. Some won't bat an eyelid at the Par of hole, as they never look at live leaderboard and simply look at final leaderboard once all have finished. Whilst to others, it makes a huge difference, and will be intrigued to see how every player battles their way through that tough Par 3

 

[3 jabber]

Which is relevant to how the game is played.

Your comment only would make sense if the entire field all played each hole at the same time

Another example. A course finished with a short par 5 compared to a course that finished with a long par 4 makes a difference. The first course gives the players a very good birdie opportunity to improve their score at end of round. The second makes it hard for them to stay on the same score. I'd be a lot more excited as the clubhouse leader on the second course.

Again irrelevant. If someone is in the clubhouse having taken a total of 280 shots and someone is on the 18th tee having taken 275 shots to that point they know that a 4 or better wins them the tournament. Doesn't matter what the par of the 18th hole is. Every pro plays every hole with the intention of taking the fewest number of shots, doesn't matter what the length or par of the hole in front of them is.

 

[Swango1980]

Again irrelevant. If someone is in the clubhouse having taken a total of 280 shots and someone is on the 18th tee having taken 275 shots to that point they know that a 4 or better wins them the tournament. Doesn't matter what the par of the 18th hole is. Every pro plays every hole with the intention of taking the fewest number of shots, doesn't matter what the length or par of the hole in front of them is.

I still disagree with your assessment. But no need to repeat the reasoning

 

[fenwayrich]

If they made the 300 yard hole a par 4, and the course par 71, it would make no difference to the final outcome. 284 shots is still 284 shots, whether that's 4 over, level par, or 4 under.

 

[D-S]

We don’t seem to have the argument when the USGA make 500 plus yard holes par 4s to defend par. This is quite common in US Opens.

I am in the par is irrelevant, lowest score wins camp.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Not bothered - lowest score wins

 

[Orikoru]

If it was a 4 you might see about 2 eagles across the week. -2 for the card. Giving someone a chance to catch the field.. prob see majority 'birdies' but a few pars aswell.. but those pars wouldn't lose them a shot..

The us open is tough as hell and avoiding bogeys can be key. It's hard to make up shots. This is a card wrecker of a hole on a tough course

You're not making sense. If you make an eagle to everyone else's par, or you make a birdie to everyone else's bogey, you're still catching the field by the same amount. The par isn't relevant, it's just your perception of what you're watching.

 

[sunshine]

I still disagree with your assessment. But no need to repeat the reasoning

This argument has gone completely over your head. When a course finishes with an easy par 5, the pros expect to birdie it. It’s not an opportunity to make up a shot on the field if everyone is making a 4 on the hole.

The 301 yard hole at Oakmont averaged 3.3 last time. That’s closer to 3 than 4 so it makes sense they call it a par 3. But it really doesn’t matter, there are no handicaps or stroke indices, it’s just a gross total of shots over 72 holes.

The reason we have a thread is because half par holes are interesting.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

You're not making sense. If you make an eagle to everyone else's par, or you make a birdie to everyone else's bogey, you're still catching the field by the same amount. The par isn't relevant, it's just your perception of what you're watching.

Agree to disagree

With regards to perceptions if it was a 4 people tune in to see it. Because it's a 3 doubt people will be that interested

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If par is irrelevant why does the scoreboard of any tournament focus on par and the score either under or over? I understand the point being made but par is very much a part of the pro game, whether on each hole or overall.

 

[Orikoru]

Agree to disagree

With regards to perceptions if it was a 4 people tune in to see it. Because it's a 3 doubt people will be that interested

I'm still in the camp that par is irrelevant. It's a par 3, most pros will be looking to make a safe 3 or maybe a 2 if they're lucky. If it was a par 4, most of the pros would be looking to drive the green and make a 3, or maybe a 2 if they're lucky. It's no different.

 

[Orikoru]

If par is irrelevant why does the scoreboard of any tournament focus on par and the score either under or over? I understand the point being made but par is very much a part of the pro game, whether on each hole or overall.

That's a visual so we can see who's "leading". What other alternative is there? They can't put number of shots taken because they're all played a different number of holes, so the one who's played the least holes would be winning.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I'm still in the camp that par is irrelevant. It's a par 3, most pros will be looking to make a safe 3 or maybe a 2 if they're lucky. If it was a par 4, most of the pros would be looking to drive the green and make a 3, or maybe a 2 if they're lucky. It's no different.

Two different mind sets tho. @Swango1980 put it perfectly. If your in the lead and it's a 4 you lay up play safe for a 4

If you in the lead and it's a 3 you are still going for a 300 yard green to try and make a 3

 

[Orikoru]

Two different mind sets tho. @Swango1980 put it perfectly. If your in the lead and it's a 4 you lay up play safe for a 4

If you in the lead and it's a 3 you are still going for a 300 yard green to try and make a 3

No it's not! Pros don't care what the par is, they want to make the lowest score possible! That's it! No change in mindset!

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Agree to disagree

With regards to perceptions if it was a 4 people tune in to see it. Because it's a 3 doubt people will be that interested

I don’t think the par of the hole will affect people tuning in or not

If anything it has the potential to have some car crash scores which might make people watch that hole more

Either way - it’s a pro tournament and it’s the lowest score over 72 holes that wins , what the par is irrelevant

 

[Voyager EMH]

If par is irrelevant why does the scoreboard of any tournament focus on par and the score either under or over? I understand the point being made but par is very much a part of the pro game, whether on each hole or overall.

Because it simplifies the scores to single figure (usually) indicators. This is easy to follow.

What the players are actually doing is gross score for 18 and then 72 holes.

Showing a leaderboard where a player is 257 after 68 holes would be correct, but makes it harder to compare with others.

After 18, 36 or 72 holes are completed, showing gross score is not so complicated to compare scores and this does often occur.

So par is relevant to the pro tournaments, but only to make comparison easier for the spectators and the players comparing themselves during a round.

 

[Crazyface]

If I was a pro I'd be laying up. Chipping close and hopefully get the par if not take the four. Play it as a par four. Stuff 'em.