No Trollies reasoning

[dejf]

In CR, playing for years, I have never seen ban of trollies. I have seen closed course in winter/bad conditions, I have seen banned buggies on wet days, but never ban trollies.

What could possibly be a reason for no trollies in wet conditions (temperature around 8-10C) ? Is there any biological aspect of wet grass/ground I am missing? From the physics point of view (pressure) I can't figure it out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

All depends on how much traffic and could also cause slip issues

Hundred plus people playing with trollies on wet ground is going to cause issues

 

[fundy]

Our course is on clay, using trolleys when its very wet/heavy causes untold damage. Means in winter trolleys are probably on less than half the time but the course definitely benefits from it come spring time

 

[dejf]

What kind of damage is that? I just lack of imagination here

I know about buggy damage, I have seen a buggy digging into the FW while wet.
But trolley? The pressure is probably not the reason, so is it because of the way the wheels roll and make these (shallow) tracks?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What kind of damage is that? I just lack of imagination here

I know about buggy damage, I have seen a buggy digging into the FW while wet.
But trolley? The pressure is probably not the reason, so is it because of the way the wheels roll and make these (shallow) tracks?

He damage can be just as bad with trolleys because you get a lot more of a footfall going across the same areas

 

[fundy]

What kind of damage is that? I just lack of imagination here

I know about buggy damage, I have seen a buggy digging into the FW while wet.
But trolley? The pressure is probably not the reason, so is it because of the way the wheels roll and make these (shallow) tracks?

Same sort of damage as buggies just not as severe, trolley wheels sinking in, even worse when people spin them, compounded by most people walking in the same places. Mainly a volume issue over wet patches of ground

 

[Craigg]

Apparently this was Redditch Golf Club, next to the 7th green. Damage caused by 'Regular' Trolley wheels.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Apparently this was Redditch Golf Club, next to the 7th green. Damage caused by 'Regular' Trolley wheels.

View attachment 17694

Yup - that's the problem. Previous club had it - underlying soil was clay so didn't drain very well. Often banned trolleys on a day-by-day basis according to the weather to prevent course getting churned into mud - even then some areas around greens and tees didn't even vaguely recover until well into the golfing season - May-June time. A prudent measure for clubs to adopt over the non-comp period. So you have to carry - well you take a few clubs out of your bag - and carry bags are inexpensive.

 

[Fish]

When you see some trolleys bulging at the seams it's no wonder they have the ability of causing damage, unfortunately some people also can't be trusted to use there trolleys sensibly and follow roped areas and stay away from between the greens & bunkers, so the best thing to do when damage can be an issue is ban them and have carry only, this will affect the obvious main group of members at all clubs who are also possibly the main offenders!

 

[dejf]

On the other hand, if you put those 15kg on back of a person, when walking, whole pressure is on 1 foot, that's like 95 kg, does this make less damage than 25 kg trolley with weight spread on 3 wheels? Would those damaged areas on the picture above be any better if people only walked there?

 

[drdel]

So we put ropes and white lines thereby ensuring golfers all walk over the same area and then we wonder why the grass cuts up. If we're going to use ropes and/or lines then they should be moved frequently.

A word with any arable farmer will soon tell you why they try not to drive machinery across field using the same route.

Perhaps we should ban pesky golfers - they only cause the green keepers extra work.

 

[Fish]

So we put ropes and white lines thereby ensuring golfers all walk over the same area and then we wonder why the grass cuts up. If we're going to use ropes and/or lines then they should be moved frequently.

A word with any arable farmer will soon tell you why they try not to drive machinery across field using the same route.

Perhaps we should ban pesky golfers - they only cause the green keepers extra work.

Our ropes are moved on a regular basis to ease the impact of excessive wear from areas especially when approaching greens and between greens & tees over the winter, any clubs greenstaff that don't apply this is there own in-house problem and members should be bringing it to the attention of the committee.

 

[Craigg]

So we put ropes and white lines thereby ensuring golfers all walk over the same area and then we wonder why the grass cuts up. If we're going to use ropes and/or lines then they should be moved frequently.

A word with any arable farmer will soon tell you why they try not to drive machinery across field using the same route.

Perhaps we should ban pesky golfers - they only cause the green keepers extra work.

Err, I think you'll find they use tramlines 12 meters apart, so as to keep all the damage in the same place. This happens to be the width of the spray arms.

 

[Crow]

It's mainly electric trolleys that cause the damage, the wheels find no traction so they start to spin and churn up the grass and mud.

Pull or push trolleys don't have quite the same problem as their wheels don't spin.

 

[Fish]

It's mainly electric trolleys that cause the damage, the wheels find no traction so they start to spin and churn up the grass and mud.

Pull or push trolleys don't have quite the same problem as their wheels don't spin.

But they can slide when going up or down slopes or embankments creating the same kind of damage

 

[Oxfordcomma]

On a slightly different tangent, I'd love to hear greenkeepers' takes on hedgehog and other winter wheels. Would make a good for/against type article for the mag I would have thought? Seems that some courses will allow trolleys with winter wheels in all but the most severe ground conditions whereas others seem to not even take them into consideration and have all or nothing rules. Possibly it's course specific but thinking about my local courses, there isn't much difference in the soil type between most of them.

 

[upsidedown]

Err, I think you'll find they use tramlines 12 meters apart, so as to keep all the damage in the same place. This happens to be the width of the spray arms.

So we put ropes and white lines thereby ensuring golfers all walk over the same area and then we wonder why the grass cuts up. If we're going to use ropes and/or lines then they should be moved frequently.

A word with any arable farmer will soon tell you why they try not to drive machinery across field using the same route.

Perhaps we should ban pesky golfers - they only cause the green keepers extra work.

Tramlines are mostly 24m and up 36 m theses days.

With most big farmers now running GPS controlled vehicles they will run in the same place time after time to minimise the compaction . So the vast majority of the traffic will run down the tramlines but the cultivators and combine will run on land that has been run on before in between them.


Really boggy/ problem ( as highlighted in the above example ) areas should be identified on courses then acted on by better drainage or laying paths and then funneling the footfall to these areas.

 

[Astraeus]

I am actually finding this education on arable farming more interesting than the (ironically) well-trodden original topic.

 

[dejf]

It's mainly electric trolleys that cause the damage, the wheels find no traction so they start to spin and churn up the grass and mud.

Pull or push trolleys don't have quite the same problem as their wheels don't spin.

Very good point!



I have thought about it again and found two possible differences between walking and trolley golfer:

1) Friction force in the opposite direction to where the trolley goes - this does not happen with walkers. So, while using a trolley reduces the amount of force perpendicular to the ground, a small amount of force on the grass/ground is being made by trolley which is parallel to the ground.

2) With trolley making shallow trails, this can actually cause water to accumulate in different places than usual. This can cause some damage. This is not happening with walkers since their marks in the ground are not




continuous.

I think 2) might causing some real problems, but I am not sure about it at all. I don't think 1) can cause a problem, but again, not sure about real world impact.

 

[dejf]

But they can slide when going up or down slopes or embankments creating the same kind of damage

And so can people ... so not a convincing one for me.