No Appeal from Saltman

lie detectors are notoriously ineffective, to pass you only have to believe what you're saying.

if Saltman believes that the way he marks the ball is right then he will also believe that he hasn't cheated.
 
I don't see this as a big issue. All likelyhood is he'll end up losing his card, playing on some God-forsaken mini tour and then disappearing into oblivion.
Give it a year or two and it'll be "Eliot who?"

I thought he'd actually admitted it at one stage - to turn around and effectively accuse 2 real professionals of lying shows he's got about as much class as a certain Mr T. Woods.
 
I think the European Tour have judged his ban well. It was long enough to make their point that they considered that he had cheated. It was also short enough that it didn't make it worth Saltman's while to challenge it in court.

From Saltman's perspective, it would not be worth his while to spend the money to challenge it as he would be unlikely to get into many of the tournaments during his three month bad and he's hardly likely to get a sponsor's invite!

It also means that there won't be a big juicy court case for the media to get their teeth into and dredge everything up again.

He's obviously decided that he's better off moving on and trying to get on with his career. He's probably right too.
 
He comes across as a guy who thought it was his God given right to earn a fortune from our game. I would like to see him charged with bringing the game into disrepute for accusing his fellow Pro's of lying.

He is just a fat fud.
 
Saltman is now marked as a cheat and that will follow him for years. Vijay Singh still gets a lot of comments made about him over events over 20 years ago. Lie detectors do not detect lies, but detect physiological changes associated with anxiety. Sociopaths do not get anxious, hence can often "pass" lie detector tests. Habitual liars also often pass them, as they are very well conditioned to lie without physiological changes. Not saying Saltman is a sociopath or habitual liar, of course.
 
I dunno what to make of this now, is he calling his playing partners liars or was it just a genuine mistake..?

I fear we'll never know the real truth.
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His playing partners are the cause of the problem, FIVE times they allegedly saw him mark his ball wrong but didn't mention it the first, second, third, fourth OR fifth time... only after the round.

These guys are supposed to be pros too... and yet they'd see some wrong doing FIVE times before saying something? Madness.

The European Tour was wrong to smear Saltman's name/reputation on the back of no evidence. Even if he WAS cheating his playing partners are at fault and should also be banned for letting him get away with it FIVE times.
 
I dunno what to make of this now, is he calling his playing partners liars or was it just a genuine mistake..?

I fear we'll never know the real truth.
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His playing partners are the cause of the problem, FIVE times they allegedly saw him mark his ball wrong but didn't mention it the first, second, third, fourth OR fifth time... only after the round.

These guys are supposed to be pros too... and yet they'd see some wrong doing FIVE times before saying something? Madness.

The European Tour was wrong to smear Saltman's name/reputation on the back of no evidence. Even if he WAS cheating his playing partners are at fault and should also be banned for letting him get away with it FIVE times.
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LoL that is funny...on one hand you say they seen it 5 times then you say they were wrong, on the back of no evidence. Oh, and his playing partners are the problem.

Now were getting the suggestion that because “of the system” there is no point in Saltman appealing. Lets get the two guys that saw him do it 5 or more times to take this test. I think Saltman passed the lie test because he genuinely thinks within himself that he didn’t lie or cheat.

Coming from East Lothian I know a few guys who have played with him in the past and there is history there, believe me.

The spotlight is now back on Marcus Higley and Stuart Davis who I am reliably told are two genuine guys who just happen to be in the unfortunate position to call this.

Saltman, in one way or another is able to voice his opinion, yet, I get the feeling the other two guys have to keep quiet.
 
I get the feeling this will rumble and rumble and rumble. I however will say its clear that it was never dealt with properly at the time, both on the part of the playing partners and also on the part of the Challenge Tour.

As soon as both partners saw him incorrectly mark his ball thats when he should have been challenged. Not after another X times then refuse to sign his card. Of course maybe both his partners only saw it on the fith occassion, however if thats the case how do we know it was five times?

Tommo, your right I have heard a rumour too, however it is only a rumour.

The lads repution is in tatters, I still associate Vijay with the same thing just because of what I've heard and read. Again with Vijay I don't know if its true or what part of the story is true however even after all these years I still automatically think of the "c" word when I see him on the telly.

Branded for life now, no turning back.
 
It seems odd to me that he's been advised not to appeal. If it was me in that situation, and I was 110% content that i'd played by the rules i'd do all I possibly could to clear my name. By not appealing basically he's saying he's guilty, in which case he should be banned for life. Appreciate there is no video evidence to back up his playing partners claims about his "dodgy" marking technique so it's all on his word against theirs. But at the end of the day I can't see why they'd both refuse to sign his card if a blatant breach of the rules hadn't taken place. It's not as if they had anything to gain, other than ditch him out of the tournament.

UP1.
 
I can't decide if Saltman is guilty or not. The ban he received shows the governing body have acted against him on the basis of two fellow players words against his and they have to be seen to act upon such issues. It also shows they don't have concrete evidence to award any significant length of ban or even a life ban.

So on that basis and the fact I don't even know the guy I'm not going to brand him a cheat.

Do we even know anything about the two players who accused him? Have they any records on themselves for accusing people of cheating in the past? Is there any grudges between the 3 players... There is many parts to the story we aren't and probably won't find out.

Saltman will do the same as all other pro's who've had accusations... Play on and try to forget it.
 
I am not really sure what to think about this situation tbh.
If the man is a cheat then he should be banned for life, however, how can anyone prove this? The word of 2 people is not the best way to make a decision, perhaps they only thought he was replacing it incorrectly, they would have been concentrating on their own games surely and therefore could not have been fully noticing what he was doing.
I believe the reason that he did not appeal was based more on the fact that he thought it was futile, they could not prove either way, and by appealing he had more to lose than gain.
If he is a cheat, when he plays the et later in the year the cameras will be all over him and will find him out.
With regards to the other chaps involved, I dont think it would be fair to give them a hard time, if they believe thats what they saw, then they were only doing what they thought was right at the time, everything is great in hindsight, so for us to say they should have done this or that without being there I think is maybe a bit harsh. Hopefully they can get on with their careers without any stigma.
 
LoL that is funny...on one hand you say they seen it 5 times then you say they were wrong, on the back of no evidence. Oh, and his playing partners are the problem.
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If you see someone cheat you pull them up on it straight away don't you.... or do you let them do it 5 times?

IF he was cheating he should have been pulled up at the first instance... no?
 
Like tommo and The Craw I have heard many rumours from his amateur days. Have a look at the comments attached to articles in Scotsman newspaper to see some of them

One thing is that the Saltman family seem to polarise opinion in East Lothian, it appears you are either firmly with them or against them. There certainly is a bit of jealousy towards them from some but the rumours only seem to follow Elliot and not his brothers.

I too don’t really know what to make of it.

He has not yet missed a tournament as he would not have made this weeks tournament in India and with two WGC events and the Masters coming up his playing time would be limited anyway. The risk of an extended ban if an appeal fails (if this is possible) would seriously hamper his chances of retaining his card so I can see why for the reasons given he has not appealed

There will certainly be a lot of talk behind his back on tour now and he will have to be very strong to get through the first few tournaments when he comes back
 
LoL that is funny...on one hand you say they seen it 5 times then you say they were wrong, on the back of no evidence. Oh, and his playing partners are the problem.
Click to expand...

If you see someone cheat you pull them up on it straight away don't you.... or do you let them do it 5 times?

IF he was cheating he should have been pulled up at the first instance... no?
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No,

In my opinion:
It is the players responsibility to know how to play golf.
It is the markers responsibility to ensure that the scores are correct on the score card at the end of the game.

The other two players are working on making their own money and career and don't need this kind of distraction. If there is question over how a player is playing the game such as in this case, it should be dealt with by an appropriate official at the end of the game.
 
Its not for 2 fellow players to 'pull him up' at all, and particularly NOt during their round, when any confrontation would only serve to wreck their own round too.

I think they acted entirely correctly, but as we dont know the full story, its hard to know.

If the stories about 'how he marked his ball' are true, then any Pro would know its clearly incorrect, so hes a 'Cheat'.

The fact that he had got away with it until now is the more surprising aspect to it perhaps.
 
The Saltmans certainly seem to divide opinion in this neck of the woods.I've never encountered them but the pro at my gaff didnt have too many nice things to say about any of the brothers or their dad for that matter.

My pro knows all three golfers involved and has spoken to the two accusers about the incident, one saw it initially, asked the other to confirm his initial thoughts and they both decided during the round to refuse to sign his card, they didnt want to mention it during the round because they both had a job to do on the course.If that's the case fair enough, but I would have probably had a quiet word walking up the fairway and taken things from there.

Wonder how Archerfield are gonna handle this...
 
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