Negative Reader Reviews

[haplesshacker]

I can can just see the IPC / GM guys thinking. 'Why are we bothering then!?'

Being included in the reader review bit, not only for the 'being in the mag' bit, which some may like. But also because the readers get to try and generally keep a new bit of kit, for free. Whether they like it or not. Those that don't like the kit might wish to return it to GM, give it to a friend or sell it on ebay.

The choice, as they say, is yours.

Is this not a case of 'I wish that I'd got something I that I did like as everyone else seems to have done'?

At least that's what I actually thought when I got sent a 'cheap' wedge (when compared to my own). I was iitially 'gutted!' It's okay the guys at GM know how I felt about this club originaly, as I included these initial thoughts in my original e-mail back to GM.

But I approached the review with an open mind.

As it turns out. The edited bit of the review that appeared in the mag was the good bits. I don't recall that my initial reaction was included to that extent.

Editorial license by any chance?

Oh. And I do know which bit of this will be quoted and edited as a 'sound-bite'! The comment finished with a question mark and not an exclamation mark. So don't go misinterpreting it please.

 

[andycap]

I agree we are not given enough time to give a proper test , but i think the whole test review thing is very much GM giving us a chance to have a real input into the mag,and i very much appreciate them for doing so.

 

[EchtLoon]

Is this not a case of 'I wish that I'd got something I that I did like as everyone else seems to have done'?

It's not what prompted the thread no. I didn't like the irons, so they went on E-Bay, which sunsequently meant I could snap up the new driver that the-craw was selling

Unless somehting was an item I would have been looking at myself, I never used to read the reader reviews, but once you've done one, you then pay more attention to see what others write, and having read the recent reviews again, to see everything 'staying in the bag', it just struck me as a pointless exercise..

That said, good points on why from janmolby & GB72, and indeed your own idea for longer to test might be an idea too, so that 'new toy syndrome' has a chance to fade.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think a review after 6 months or so (not on every piece of kit obviously) would be a worthy inclusion by the GM team and would certainly give the feature a more balanced feel.

 

[SammmeBee]

'A review after 6 months'? What like TM have admitted the new Bummer 97 driver is rubbish and have now brought out the 98 version ....is that what you meant?

Or I used this K1 driver and after 6 months it's stil rubbish?

 

[haplesshacker]

The only problem with 'waiting' for 6 months to actually give a review, is that, especially in TM's case, the item would have been replaced twice already and will be in the bargin bin at the shops!

I dragged out the mag with Echtloons review. TBH I wouldn't have said that he was negative about the product at all. Just not to his liking. I'd almost go so far to say that he was careful not to diss them, and focused on the positives of the clubs.

Now if you'd said these clubs are (rubbish!) that would be a different story.

PS. From what you've said I guess that it was the Wilson Staff Di9 irons?

 

[EchtLoon]

The only problem with 'waiting' for 6 months to actually give a review, is that, especially in TM's case, the item would have been replaced twice already and will be in the bargin bin at the shops!

I dragged out the mag with Echtloons review. TBH I wouldn't have said that he was negative about the product at all. Just not to his liking. I'd almost go so far to say that he was careful not to diss them, and focused on the positives of the clubs.

Now if you'd said these clubs are (rubbish!) that would be a different story.

PS. From what you've said I guess that it was the Wilson Staff Di9 irons?

Can I just say, my review was heavily edited

eg. 'Staying in the Bag?' I actually said 'not even close'

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I wasn't going to be as cynical as that sameeebee (although with TM I do take your point especially with drivers). I just happen to think that it seems from the comments made by those chosen to review gear that a lot of it is enjoyed or looked at favourably early on (many saying it will stay in the bag) and that it would be interesting once the honeymoon period was over how much gear 6 months later was still being used.

I just think it would be interesting to see if it was just because something shinier and newer came along, whether peoples game changed better or worse and they felt they needed something else or that ultimately after the initial joy of receiving a freebie the product just wasn't for them.

 

[haplesshacker]

If the mag don't run a 6 month follow up review within it's already packed pages. Perhaps it should be in the forum review section, and just 'advertised' in the mag on the readers reviews pages.

Just a thought.

Maybe those of us on here that have done a reader review for the mag can bring us up-to-date this way already.

I'll do mine tomorrow. It's late and I might just ramble!!!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Might not be worth doing every month but as a quarterly feature it would break the article up a bit. I think a few reviews on the review section would be good. I could always use them in the forum section of the mag

 

[TonyN]

I was sent a Yonex putter last year which I was totally honest about. It was a Blade putter and I use a mallet. At the time I had every intention of keeping it in the bag because it was excellent. I said I would be getting rid of the grip though because it was rubbish. I did infact keep it in the bag but after a few week my putting went to pot, I put the mallet back in and loaned the putter out to a few forum members.

Now my putting has come on since, I am picking it back up from Vig tommorow and its being cut down and regripped for the faster summer greens.

This section of the mag is fantastic and I have read some good honest reviews. Vig, your review is in, I seen it today.

 

[vig]

They didn't put it in as intended though.

The wedges were about 3/4" shorter than mine and I think this didn't give me a chance to test them fully.

They are nice looking and feeling wedges though.

In the "keeping it in the bag" heading I said after lengthning & re-gripping, maybe

 

[haplesshacker]

Maybe, just maybe, it's not, as the OP suggested that the readers views are always positive. But the editing of the piece by the GM team, with the restricted space it has for each piece, that makes each review 'positive'!

I also do think though that we, as reader testers, don't want to rock the boat too much, as afer-all, we're onto a good thing here with the free kit an'all!

The things Mike and his team have to put up with with us, well okay, me, on here.

I can see my h'cap being reduced massively for the 'big meet' in August!

 

[EchtLoon]

Maybe, just maybe, it's not, as the OP suggested that the readers views are always positive. But the editing of the piece by the GM team, with the restricted space it has for each piece, that makes each review 'positive'!

Well that's bad editing then. But you are perhaps right anyway, because as you say even my own review wasn't particularly negative, yet there is no way I would be spending my own cash on the irons I had to test, and made that plain, so again, bad editing. If the way a review is written doesn't fit the mag, then yes edit, but the essence of the review should remain.

I also do think though that we, as reader testers, don't want to rock the boat too much, as afer-all, we're onto a good thing here with the free kit an'all!

And that was what I alluded to initially, the reviews are meaningless if the readers have an even bigger agenda, than the criticism that lead to reader reviews being introduced in the first place.

 

[Faldo_Fan]

Do you not have a honeymoon period???
Every shiny new piece of kit i try i don't seem to be able to do a damn thing wrong with it for about 3-4 weeks.....then it goes like all the rest!!!!!!

Working on that rule of thumb, if i replaced everything every 3-4 weeks i'd be down to scratch in no time.....homeless and bankrupt but still scratch!

 

[EchtLoon]

Do you not have a honeymoon period???

I think you get about three weeks if memory serves, which would make sense as they have to keep meeting deadlines for each subsequent magazine.

 

[madandra]

I think a good follow up to a review would be going back 12 months later and asking:

IS IT STILL IN THE BAG ???


I got a Ping G10 3 wood and 18 months later I am still using it.

 

[viscount17]

I gave negative feedback for a couple of the books that I have reviewed, don't think it got in print though.

ps Jezz - I've <u>still</u> got them, where do you want them to go? One is a signed copy to Mike.

 

[vig]

I think a good follow up to a review would be going back 12 months later and asking:

IS IT STILL IN THE BAG ???


I got a Ping G10 3 wood and 18 months later I am still using it.

I agree 100%
Nice shiny new kit as some sort of draw. i wonder how many are still using it.

I have had three sets of wedges in 2 years so IF they do go in the bag. It is unlikely they will be in in 12 months time.

A few hit them on the range yesterday and they are considerably shorter than other wedges.

 

[MikeH]

Afternoon all

Apologies for the slow reply on this topic but I have been away on holiday for a few days. A few points/replies

* The reader test panel (RTP) was introduced as a direct response to requests made on this forum for readers to have opportunity to test equipment and then give their views.

To date we have sent out nearly 100 items of equipment for that purpose. No other magazine does this. If it’s not viewed as a useful element of our equipment coverage then I’ll withdraw the feature when we refresh the magazine for next spring.

* Positive/Negative feedback - as I have said on here before I think there is very little duff stuff out there so I'm not surprised to see a lot of good comments. There have however been a number of people who have said they won’t be keeping it in the bag.

* Editing of feedback
The feedback we get for RTP is edited for sense and length AND if we feel it does not fit with magazine style.
I have just read EchtLoon’s original feedback comments and all we have really changed is the staying in the bag comment, which was original "Not even close" to "I'm afraid not"
We did this because it's just isn’t Golf Monthly house style. I have explained this in preview threads that we just don't do the rated and slated style (which I view a comment like "Not even close" as) because I think it’s being controversial for the sake of it.
You are however completely free to post whatever you want review wise (libel notwithstanding) on the post a review forum.

* Length of time to test the clubs.
We are constrained by deadlines and sometimes you may be only given 2-3 weeks to test kit but how long would you test an item before forming an opinion and deciding whether to buy it or not? Even at a serious demo day you are unlikely to hit for more than 30mins and you’d have an opinion to share after that? Surely you can pass comment after a few range sessions or a round of golf?

* Long-term feedback
Related to the above – a great idea and we will introduce it in the magazine in due course. In the meantime PLEASE DO post follow up stuff on the forum, especially in the post a review section. It’s what that section is for and the more info and views out there on a product, the better for everyone. You can also post your comments and views after our website reviews in the comments box as below
http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/equipment/...-909-dcomp.html
http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/equipment/reviews/irons/823/1/mizuno-mp-62-and-mp-52-irons.html

* Keeping advertisers (i.e. the manufacturer’s) happy
I sought the views of the manufacturers on the idea of the RTP before it was introduced and nearly all were in favour (only Titleist and Cobra don’t participate as they want everyone to be custom-fitted for products and logistically we can’t do that) and were happy to take constructive criticism of their products.
However I do think that if we print the rated and slated style comments rather than constructive criticism then they might well refuse to allow us to send out items for RTP and then the only net loser is the readers.

* Only three readers have ever had the opportunity to test more than one bit of kit…
GB72 – Top Flite balls and some TM Burner irons – Frankly I thought Greg got a fairly crappy draw with the balls and given the contribution he made the forum in the early I days I made the decision to send him something decent
Madandra – Ping G10 3 wood and Ping bag – frankly Andy was the only golfer I know with enough balls to try a bag we had been sent in that looked like a pair of John Daly’s kecks
TonyN – Yonex putter and Tag sunglasses. We needed someone who already wore sunglasses to play golf in and Tony was the first to respond when Paul O’H

Otherwise it’s one chance only I’m afraid as we had over 2,000 applications to join the RTP and want to get round as many as possible so there’s no issue of not being sent another item to test if you don’t rate the first one.

* In terns of what stuff you get to test then we want to send out as broad a spectrum of kit as possible both in terms of playing ability and budget. We always try to match current clubs and playing ability to what we send out – i.e. we’re not going to send a game improver a set of Mizuno blades and likewise we wouldn’t send a Category 1 golfer a draw biased driver with a R flex shaft in!

I’m sure everyone would love to be sent a new R9 or a set of Ping S57s to test and potentially keep for your own use but that would mean we only ever featured the “big brands” producing expensive gear.

We are often asked, especially on the forum, to include more budget items in the but then get comments about being disappointed with getting “cheap” stuff to test.

You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid.

The whole idea of this feature was to give readers the opportunity to review the latest gear and share their views with other readers. It’s surely a bonus if you get on so well with the kit that you’ll put in the bag permanently. Looking at some of the comments it does read like some people just want the latest top of the range kit for free.

RTP is supposed to be a service that everyone benefits from - be it directly if you get the perk or testing a new bit of kit, or indirectly when you get to read a another review of something you may be in the market for.

* Selling RTP stuff on ebay
I was frankly disgusted to read that EchtLoon put the set of irons he was sent FOC to test on ebay to profit from and buy a new driver.
I thought the T&C's we sent out with kit for the RTP make it crystal clear that we may need to ask for the items back if requested by the manufacturer (and therefore to keep hold of it). As a result of the above we will now be adding a line about under no circumstances should the items be sold on. In future if this happens we will reserve the right to pursue the person for the cost of the item.
If you really don't get on with the kit then let us know and we will arrange for it to be collected at out cost and we can then send it on to another reader who might like to try the clubs and post a review about them on the forum - I'm sure there would have been no shortage of takers for a 450quid set of Wilson irons that have become one of the best-selling sets of cavity-backed irons on the market.