More Brits embarrassing themselves abroad “allegedly”

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Dibby said:
Equally, there are a bunch of old people who are probably not that far from the end anyway expecting everyone else to put their lives on hold. Some of the young people might even have a significant amount of their economic future impacted.

Not saying that to be flippant, but it's actually something I was thinking about as to who is the selfish group in covid times, the older population who is more at risk making everyone else put their lives on hold, or the younger generation not at risk and not caring about the older group who are. Both are inflicting serious damage on each other, just different kinds of damage. Probably 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, as I could never reach a definitive conclusion.
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What about the person from the younger generation who is going about their life as usual and gets involved in a serious car accident, falls off a ladder or has a heart attack from an undiagnosed underlying condition and needs an intensive care bed. They turn up at the hospital and find that they are going to have to spend several hours in the back of an ambulance, with each hour reducing their chances of survival, due to the lack of ITU beds because of Covid? Or the 35 year old woman that finds a lump in her breast and can't get an appointment to get it checked because resources have been diverted to support Covid cases? The discussion shouldn't be focussed on the effects of Covid but also on the effects of Covid on those needing other treatment.
 
The young will always get priority treatment if they need ICU. The NHS don't do morals, just age and percentages.

Why blame the young and not the millions of fat people who clog up the NHS on a daily basis? These are the parasites who are destroying the NHS and making it not fit for purpose.
 
ColchesterFC said:
What about the person from the younger generation who is going about their life as usual and gets involved in a serious car accident, falls off a ladder or has a heart attack from an undiagnosed underlying condition and needs an intensive care bed. They turn up at the hospital and find that they are going to have to spend several hours in the back of an ambulance, with each hour reducing their chances of survival, due to the lack of ITU beds because of Covid? Or the 35 year old woman that finds a lump in her breast and can't get an appointment to get it checked because resources have been diverted to support Covid cases? The discussion shouldn't be focussed on the effects of Covid but also on the effects of Covid on those needing other treatment.
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My point is merely that each side has a claim to calling the other selfish. I am not saying either is right or wrong. Young and old was a proxy for the 2 sides, but it's not that black and white.

However, what about younger people who are in car accidents or need cancer treatment? As harsh as it sounds these groups are a minority, at what point does the minority impacting the majorities lives make it that the minority group is actually the selfish one?
None of this changes that on a micro level if it's you or your family who are impacted it's terrible from an individual perspective, whether that's through a covid caused death, or through longer term impacts of lockdown, but from a macro level what is best for the overall group may not be best for certain individuals.
 
I can only say what I see, I may see the odd old person with their mask below their nose which is stupid but I do see so many young people acting as if things are normal and it's just wrong.

Saying young people have always taken chances and lived a somewhat reckless lifestyle is not acceptable IMO. We are living in very difficult times and times most of us have never experienced before, these times put additional responsibilities on us all regarding the way we live our lives and the responsibilities we hold to one another.

There must be an understanding by now of where most people contract Corona virus and the demographics. Surely the way to create a reduction is to target and remove the causes and be ruthless in that targeting.
 
Dibby said:
My point is merely that each side has a claim to calling the other selfish. I am not saying either is right or wrong. Young and old was a proxy for the 2 sides, but it's not that black and white.

However, what about younger people who are in car accidents or need cancer treatment? As harsh as it sounds these groups are a minority, at what point does the minority impacting the majorities lives make it that the minority group is actually the selfish one?
None of this changes that on a micro level if it's you or your family who are impacted it's terrible from an individual perspective, whether that's through a covid caused death, or through longer term impacts of lockdown, but from a macro level what is best for the overall group may not be best for certain individuals.
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During the Spanish flu, it killed anyone, young and old. It did not differentiate. The young were at risk as much as the elderly. Everybody was in the same boat.

The difference this time round is Covid is predominantly killing the old and vulnerable With underlying health issues. They are the ones that are suffering the most. Yet there is a case for the young saying the elderly are selfish because they have to scacrifice going to the pub or an illegal rave? For me, predominantly the young ones should be ashamed of some of there actions. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not just the young ones. The police stopping folk from walking up Pen Y fan being an example. Some which have travelled 200 miles, some which have turned up in mini buses with multiple families in.
 
SocketRocket said:
I can only say what I see, I may see the odd old person with their mask below their nose which is stupid but I do see so many young people acting as if things are normal and it's just wrong.

Saying young people have always taken chances and lived a somewhat reckless lifestyle is not acceptable IMO. We are living in very difficult times and times most of us have never experienced before, these times put additional responsibilities on us all regarding the way we live our lives and the responsibilities we hold to one another.
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I have seen just as many old people acting the same way, have you seen a golf club? Many have said it's harder for old people to adjust etc. It's the exact same excuses. If you are a selfish idiot as a youth, you are probably going to be a selfish idiot as an old person. Age has very little to do with it.

SocketRocket said:
There must be an understanding by now of where most people contract Corona virus and the demographics. Surely the way to create a reduction is to target and remove the causes and be ruthless in that targeting.
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If you are insinuating that we should target the young as you infer they are contracting the disease the most. Surely it would make more sense to lock away anyone over 40.

less that 60 people under 40 with no underlying health conditions have died of covid. And only 350 if you include those with underlying conditions. (I hate using the word only, every death is a friend of somone) We could all be living completely normal lives, contributing to the economy. But we are locked away for the benefit of older people. If you are going to discriminate by age, realise that the old are the reason for all this.

Did you know there has been more suicides than covid deaths by under 40's?
 
Tashyboy said:
During the Spanish flu, it killed anyone, young and old. It did not differentiate. The young were at risk as much as the elderly. Everybody was in the same boat.

The difference this time round is Covid is predominantly killing the old and vulnerable With underlying health issues. They are the ones that are suffering the most. Yet there is a case for the young saying the elderly are selfish because they have to scacrifice going to the pub or an illegal rave? For me, predominantly the young ones should be ashamed of some of there actions. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not just the young ones. The police stopping folk from walking up Pen Y fan being an example. Some which have travelled 200 miles, some which have turned up in mini buses with multiple families in.
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That kind of stuff is hard to defend, however, where do you draw the line? The economic, and mental health damage from lockdowns won't be fully felt for years in some cases. From things that we don't even consider serious, like single people who have had barely any human contact, to more easily understandable events like those people whose business folded, or who ended up out of work. At some point even those who are just going to carry the tax bill for all the efforts that have taken place so far, whilst a lot of the vulnerable who benefited will be long gone.

Again, I don't fall particularly heavily on either side, but if you can't see both viewpoints and see that both sides are inflicting various forms of damage on each other, I don't know what else to say. The only difference is the impact of some selfish activity is immediate in terms of illness and death whereas the other side is a delayed effect to be seen at some point in the future.

Just like a general has to decide whether to minimise casualites now but let the war prolong, or risk a significant number of casualties now but potentially shorten or end the war, it's not an easy or clear cut choice to make.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
I don't disagree that it is like you example above. But we are not talking about disrespect of authority etc as in children .We are talking about behaviour of young adults, at a time when they know such behaviour will cause some people, other than their peers, to die. That's not the usual "growing up" syndrome- that is callous , amoral behaviour. And it's becoming more and more usual as time as gone on since the fifties and sixties.
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I have been shocked by some comments on social media, especially on news websites, from "young people" who do not hide the fact that they think old people should be left to die (as they are going to die soon anyway) or stay indoors and isolate, having had their life already, and the young should be allowed to get on with life. Fortunately such comments generally invoke a tirade of angry responses, the best one I have seen was along the lines of, OK, and what are you doing to stop you getting any older?" I hope their own grandparents never get to see such comments.
 
DanFST said:
I have seen just as many old people acting the same way, have you seen a golf club? Many have said it's harder for old people to adjust etc. It's the exact same excuses. If you are a selfish idiot as a youth, you are probably going to be a selfish idiot as an old person. Age has very little to do with it.



If you are insinuating that we should target the young as you infer they are contracting the disease the most. Surely it would make more sense to lock away anyone over 40.

less that 60 people under 40 with no underlying health conditions have died of covid. And only 350 if you include those with underlying conditions. (I hate using the word only, every death is a friend of somone) We could all be living completely normal lives, contributing to the economy. But we are locked away for the benefit of older people. If you are going to discriminate by age, realise that the old are the reason for all this.

Did you know there has been more suicides than covid deaths by under 40's?
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Golf Clubs are no excuse but I doubt if they are places where the virus is being spread in large numbers. If they are then as my previous post suggests they should be dealt with ruthlessly, why not?

I never said we should target the young indiscriminately, I did say that from my observations when out and about many of the young appear to have little consideration for their actions, I also said I see older people not being responsible and stand by that.

The number of young people that have died from Covid is not the issue, it's about the number who may be catching it and passing it on to more vunrable people.
I do not discriminate by age or anything else, I thought I made it clear enough that if we understand the main causes of transmission then we should target action there as ruthlessly as needed. This doesn't unfairly target anyone, only those that need targeting.

Regarding suicides you may be correct but it's not in the tens of thousands. If young people are suicidal then as a society we should do all we can to help people before they reach this stage, or do you believe I don't understand it, I assure you when one of your family has killed themselves you get a good idea of how bad it is.
 
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SocketRocket said:
I did say that from my observations when out and about many of the young appear to have little consideration for their actions, I also said I see older people not being responsible and stand by that.
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So most ages are being irresponsible, so to single out by age is irrelevant.


SocketRocket said:
The number of young people that have died from Covid is not the issue, it's about the number who may be catching it and passing it on to more vunrable people.
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That's the point. isolate the old. Young people can transmit freely, live their lives and support the economy. Obviously will never happen. It's be cheaper for everyone, massively decrease the deaths/stress on the NHS. But for reasons we can't speak of on the forum, obviously won't happen.
 
DanFST said:
So most ages are being irresponsible, so to single out by age is irrelevant.




That's the point. isolate the old. Young people can transmit freely, live their lives and support the economy. Obviously will never happen. It's be cheaper for everyone, massively decrease the deaths/stress on the NHS. But for reasons we can't speak of on the forum, obviously won't happen.
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I can only repeat what I've said. We should target areas where most virus is being spread, wherever that is.

I have also given an observation of where I have experienced lax attitudes to controlling Covid and that's generally in young people and in a smaller number of older people. You may well have different observations, I cannot speak for other people but only what I see with my own eyes.

I don't believe herd immunity works and with the current levels of infection it would create a chaotic situation, the virus would grow at uncontrolled rates, I think you underestimate how ill younger people can become and the effects of long Covid. The country would also be cut off completely from the rest of the world with a deviststing effect on the economy. The best policy is to lock down, vaccinate then emerge into an ecconomy that will have a chance to grow.
 
Back in March I mentioned when I was on My holidays re Joe publics attitude re this Covid and was roundly ripped to bits. This re Brits embarrassing themselves is not new. Unfortunately it is becoming more common. For me predominantly young
uns. But now it’s all ages. My lad has just mentioned about one of his 3x pals who has gone up to the Lake District today “ for a walk” and he has done it all year.
Bottom line, at times we are “peeing in the wind”.
 
Tashyboy said:
Back in March I mentioned when I was on My holidays re Joe publics attitude re this Covid and was roundly ripped to bits. This re Brits embarrassing themselves is not new. Unfortunately it is becoming more common. For me predominantly young
uns. But now it’s all ages. My lad has just mentioned about one of his 3x pals who has gone up to the Lake District today “ for a walk” and he has done it all year.
Bottom line, at times we are “peeing in the wind”.
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You were roundly, and rightly, ripped to bits for preaching about not travelling whilst you had chosen to travel.

It had nothing to with whether the comment was right or wrong; it was about the utter hypocrisy of the post in lecturing others not to do exactly what you were doing.
 
SocketRocket said:
I don't believe herd immunity works and with the current levels of infection it would create a chaotic situation, the virus would grow at uncontrolled rates, I think you underestimate how ill younger people can become and the effects of long Covid. The country would also be cut off completely from the rest of the world with a deviststing effect on the economy. The best policy is to lock down, vaccinate then emerge into an ecconomy that will have a chance to grow.
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A virus that grows at uncontrolled rates, but doesn't kill or hospitalise in large numbers isn't a major problem.

Why would be isolated from the rest of the world? And how more than now? We are barred from North America, Australasia and the majority of Asia.
 
Blue in Munich said:
You were roundly, and rightly, ripped to bits for preaching about not travelling whilst you had chosen to travel.

It had nothing to with whether the comment was right or wrong; it was about the utter hypocrisy of the post in lecturing others not to do exactly what you were doing.
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Yup let’s not let the truth get in the way. As I mentioned at the time the UK government said it was safe to travel. Not me and not you. Whilst we were there this country went into lockdown. They are the ones who set the rules. Since then there have been posts on this forum about booking holidays. Are they wrong to want to go somewhere safe. How many travel corridors have closed and folk gone into 14 day isolation on there return since then. We’re they wrong as well To go away.
If memory serves me right, I was accused of not loving me grandkids because we thought we would be looking after them. Guess what the government said “ Tash you can look after your kids coz there mums a copper”.

What exactly was my hypocrisy, pointing out then what folk are doing now. Would love to see where I said don’t travel when am abroad. And if it does then I will hold me hands up.
 
4LEX said:
The young will always get priority treatment if they need ICU. The NHS don't do morals, just age and percentages.

Why blame the young and not the millions of fat people who clog up the NHS on a daily basis? These are the parasites who are destroying the NHS and making it not fit for purpose.
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Doesn't help them if they turn up at A+E and all the ICU beds are full with old Covid patients and there's no bed for them.

And to be clear, I wasn't blaming the young. I was pointing out that there are reasons that the older generation are asking the younger generation to "put their lives on hold", to quote the original post. The virus needs to be controlled for the benefit of the old (not killing them) and the young (having hospital treatment available when they need it).
 
This is the irony ... your children reflect your behaviours .. no age group is innocent.
It always made me laugh listening to senior management talking about business behaviours and them criticising lower management about poor behaviours when the seniors were the example to follow.. and their behaviour was poor. So where does it start ... the influencers, the senior members of society etc ... so no I don’t blame an age group
 
DanFST said:
A virus that grows at uncontrolled rates, but doesn't kill or hospitalise in large numbers isn't a major problem.

Why would be isolated from the rest of the world? And how more than now? We are barred from North America, Australasia and the majority of Asia.
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Think many of us have seen some (limited) stats that are showing the low mortality rate for healthy younger folk, and that's great. But do you have any to share that confirms no/low hospitalisations?
For clarity I've not seen them (although it may be true).
Perhaps the below is all over 60s?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-55480147
 
IainP said:
Think many of us have seen some (limited) stats that are showing the low mortality rate for healthy younger folk, and that's great. But do you have any to share that confirms no/low hospitalisations?
For clarity I've not seen them (although it may be true).
Perhaps the below is all over 60s?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-55480147
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We've had 18 year olds in ICU with Covid and a whole host of 20 something. Whether the new strain will be more virulent in the younger generation and lead to more ICU admissions I don't know yet and can only take what happens at the trust I work at as a local barometer.
 
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