Mole hills

[Charlie_B1981]

So 3 situations today that caused some confusion- all in a club comp,

1) ball at rest with a mole hill interfering with backswing, nearest point of relief put the stance in the middle of a bush so not an option resulting in the ball played as it lied, is it an option to remove the loose soil from the mole hill so it no longer interfered?

2) ball at rest next to what was clearly an old mole hill, partner advised that because it's old and established with grass growing over it then relief can't be taken, I thought you always could if it was identifiable as a mole hill regardless of age.

3) relief available from a mole hill, but nearest point put you in the middle of a huge patch of mole hills, you could have been there all day taking relief, yet the pragmatic approach would be drop the opposite side where it's clear. What should you do in this case

Thanks in advance
Charlie

 

[Foxholer]

1 & 2 are easy; 3 is a bit more difficult - and situation specific!

1. Loose Soil is a Loose Impediment ONLY when on the Putting green. So No!

2. Partner was wrong! You were correct in what you thought!

3. If 'relief' put you in a huge patch of a cluster of 'associated' mole hills that were going to interfere with your stance or swing, then it probably wasn't proper relief. I believe, but could well be wrong, that the set of molehills (if, including the one that was causing the initial interference, they are truly a 'set') is considered a 'single' area from which relief can be taken in a single step - as opposed to the sort of thing that happens where NPoR from a path then puts you near a different area from which relief can be taken. But it is really something that needs to be assessed 'on-site'! It's possible that the initial interference was a single MH or part of the cluster. It really needs to be seen to 'rule'! And taking relief in another direction may have been a 'bad idea'! It always pays to work out the options BEFORE picking your ball up!

PS. Don't you just love what Auto-correct does to 'mole-hills'?!

 

[Fish]

I think the bigger question is, how do you address the mole hill infestation you have 😜

Are they on the fairways?

 

[Charlie_B1981]

Cheers guys, confirmed some of my thoughts, 1) just seems a bit unfair but it's the nature of the game I guess.
2) is there anywhere that confirms this, I can't see it calling this out in the rule book.
Re 3) I must admit I've not heard of them related to as a set, always thought it was based on the individual mole hill- if you know where this is referenced can you let me know.

And agree, although they aren't on the fairways, but have affected a couple of greens where they've tunnelled underneath and it's collapsed.

 

[duncan mackie]

I struggle with no 1....this must be a huge molehill such that the NPR is far at all, and 1 club should get you back where you get realistic relief.
2 25/23
3 unless physically linked they are individual areas.

 

[Charlie_B1981]

Duncan- re 1, not huge, but the ball right up against it so there's no backswing- 1 club nearest point meant an unplayable shot as it put the stance in a bush.

 

[rulefan]

I'm also puzzled by no 1.
I would expect the npr to be within a foot. Then with the 1cl arc, there would seem to be room.

 

[duncan mackie]

I'm also puzzled by no 1.
I would expect the npr to be within a foot. Then with the 1cl arc, there would seem to be room.

Indeed - put another way, I've yet to see a molehill with a diameter greater than the length of a driver.

 

[rulefan]

Of course, if the player is RH and the npr is to the left, the drop arc includes an area to the right of the mole hill. If the npr is to the right, the drop arc includes an area to the left of the mole hill.

 

[Charlie_B1981]

Or in this case, that foot for NPR meant the player (me) taking a step backwards and going from the edge of a thick bush to an unplayable stance in the bush.

 

[duncan mackie]

Or in this case, that foot for NPR meant the player (me) taking a step backwards and going from the edge of a thick bush to an unplayable stance in the bush.

Clearly we aren't explaining it very well.

Once you have established your NPR, which may well mean you would be in a bush to play it, can then drop it 1cl not nearer the hole which should enable you to get back the other side of the molehill (and out of the bush)!

 

[Three]

Or in this case, that foot for NPR meant the player (me) taking a step backwards and going from the edge of a thick bush to an unplayable stance in the bush.

Yeah but you can drop within one club length of the nearest point of relief.
So as the guys above say , your npr might be towards the bush, but you can then drop within a driver's length in any direction (not nearer the hole) eg you could drop the opposite side of the molehill so that you are getting further away from the bush.
To visualise this, imagine the molehill is between you and the ball after you've dropped, so as long as the molehill is no longer interfering it's fine.

 

[Charlie_B1981]

No,I get what you mean about an arc(or circle that's one club, but you must take full relief , 1 club length going the other side of the mole hill means you'd then be standing on it, unless you manage to drop it and come to rest a foot the other side so that the mole hill sits in between your ball and stance and so not interfering- but I understood this wouldn't be classed as taking full relief either.

 

[rulefan]

unless you manage to drop it and come to rest a foot the other side so that the mole hill sits in between your ball and stance and so not interfering- but I understood this wouldn't be classed as taking full relief either.

Why do you think that? If it is not interfering then you have got full relief.

But in case 1, is the ball nearer the green than the mole hill? Id the bush further back towards the tee?
Is this diagram anything like the situation.

The yellow dot is the ball but I have indicated that the npr could be x1 or x2 depending on it's exact position.
But why can't you drop in either of the arcs.
Of the mole hill does not interfere with ball, stance or swing after dropping (twice or placing if necessary) then you are ok.

 

[Three]

Why do you think that? If it is not interfering then you have got full relief.

Exactly.
Maybe there is a misunderstanding of what "interference" is. I'm sure that most mole hills could fit between a player's ball and his feet and not cause any interference, ie not impeding the stance or area of swing.

 

[Charlie_B1981]

It's the interference bit I think. I was always led to believe that full relief meant the obstruction also wasn't in between your swing and stance. But if that's not the case then completely agree with what your saying. And yes I could've taken NPR 6inch towards me then dropped the other side- wish I'd thought of that before.

 

[Foxholer]

It's the interference bit I think. I was always led to believe that full relief meant the obstruction also wasn't in between your swing and stance. But if that's not the case then completely agree with what your saying. And yes I could've taken NPR 6inch towards me then dropped the other side- wish I'd thought of that before.

That's the 'problem'! Relief means 'no longer interferes'. So if that definition is satisfied, then all is good!

It certainly does pay to consider what all the options are - and before you pick the ball up!

 

[duncan mackie]

It's the interference bit I think. I was always led to believe that full relief meant the obstruction also wasn't in between your swing and stance. But if that's not the case then completely agree with what your saying. And yes I could've taken NPR 6inch towards me then dropped the other side- wish I'd thought of that before.

Just to close this out, there are other reasons to take such a defined drop. Having established your NPR, and then establishing a very precise spot within 1cl that meets the necessary definition, if your ball correctly strikes that point first but rolls into a position such that interference from (that) molehill occurs, you get to drop again (as well as the other reasons for having to re-drop)- then place if it does it again. Given that a ball may only have to go 1" forwards or a few inches in any other direction for the molehill to interfere with either swing or stance you are pretty much guaranteed to be placing it , which will be a distinct advantage in most situations.