• We'd like to take this opportunity to wish you a Happy Holidays and a very Merry Christmas from all at Golf Monthly. Thank you for sharing your 2025 with us!

Loony Left comment on the Open

I think it's pretty sad that these guys feel the need to exclude half the population but, as a private members club, I guess they have the right to do so. Can they / do they also openly discriminate against other sections of society I wonder?

However, in my opinion, such a policy should disallow them from hosting the open. By taking it there the R&A perpetuates the notion of golf being the game for old sexist fuddyduddies.

My OH is currently starting to play golf. She has already stated that she will probably never join a club due to the sexist attitudes she has encountered. It is impossible for me to refute this as the attitude of a few old farts in the context of the game's governing body playing the open championship at a venue that openly embodies sexism.
 
FairwayDodger said:
...at a venue that openly embodies sexism.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that maintaining a men-only tradition - or indeed ladies-only tradition - is the same as sexism, though it is very easy to lazily equate the two. Start up something new on these bases then - yes - maybe sexism would be a fair charge but not sure that it is when something has always been single sex.
 
This topic has been done to death numerous times.

There are male only organisations and female only organisations, does it really matter? It's only people stirring it up that causes a problem. Sunningdale Ladies Gold Club looks really nice but I can't join......who cares?! Not me!
 
drive4show said:
This topic has been done to death numerous times.

There are male only organisations and female only organisations, does it really matter? It's only people stirring it up that causes a problem. Sunningdale Ladies Gold Club looks really nice but I can't join......who cares?! Not me!
Click to expand...

For me, the argument isn't so much about joining these clubs as whether the open should be played there or not. In my opinion neither muirfield nor sunningdale ladies should be eligible to host the open.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I'm not sure that maintaining a men-only tradition - or indeed ladies-only tradition - is the same as sexism, though it is very easy to lazily equate the two. Start up something new on these bases then - yes - maybe sexism would be a fair charge but not sure that it is when something has always been single sex.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I sort of see your point but, at the risk of raising another lazy argument, if a club had always barred black people from joining would it be racist or "tradition"?
 
FairwayDodger said:
Hmm... I sort of see your point but, at the risk of raising another lazy argument, if a club had always barred black people from joining would it be racist or "tradition"?
Click to expand...

...and I see yours - though I think the important word in your post is 'barred'. That clearly implies active discrimination against one section of society wishing to participate in an activity or join a group, when participation in similar activities would be the norm.
 
drive4show said:
This topic has been done to death numerous times.

There are male only organisations and female only organisations, does it really matter? It's only people stirring it up that causes a problem.
Click to expand...

Well according to Fairway Dodger

My OH is currently starting to play golf. She has already stated that she will probably never join a club due to the sexist attitudes she has encountered. It is impossible for me to refute this as the attitude of a few old farts in the context of the game's governing body playing the open championship at a venue that openly embodies sexism.

So call me a woolly liberal but to me that does matter in a backdrop of falling membership and courses closing when a female says she will probably never join a club due to sexist attitudes. As I am sure she is not the only one.

As pointed out in the excellent transcript of a meeting with Peter Dawson on the R&A web site, a large part of the problem is that it is all about perception. Yes it is not technically illegal, yes women have the WI and all the rest of the defence that people make. But the perception of the game is that it is elitist, run by blazer wearing gin soaked elderly middle class white men who are very resistant to change and do their best to exclude people who do not fit into a specific stereotype. I am sure everyone can come up with some facts to refute that.

But when Augusta allowed 2 female members then at a stroke, the perception of it changed. It was no accident that Condoleezza Rice was there in her green jacket at the last Masters for every photo opportunity. In reality it was a token effort, but it changed the perception, and to me Fairway Dodger's example has shown that perception trumps facts all the time.
 
FairwayDodger said:
I think it's pretty sad that these guys feel the need to exclude half the population but, as a private members club, I guess they have the right to do so. Can they / do they also openly discriminate against other sections of society I wonder?
Click to expand...

I think you will find that they exclude significantly more than half the population FD, I'd stand the same chance of being accepted as a member there as you ;)
 
...but there are sexist attitudes everywhere in life and I am sure at EVERY golf club in the land. Muirfield membership becoming open to ladies will not get rid of sexism from golf clubs. But in general on a club by club basis I'd say that you most certainly can refute an accusation made that the club is institutionally or systemically sexist. There are blokes at my club that moan about the ladies being able to book tee slots during the monthly medal - that may be seen as sexism - though in general these same members would not see themselves as sexist.
 
Hacker Khan said:
Well according to Fairway Dodger

My OH is currently starting to play golf. She has already stated that she will probably never join a club due to the sexist attitudes she has encountered.
Click to expand...


My OH informs me that there is some degree of 'sexism' in everything the 'fairer sex' do in everyday life including their anointed tasks such as shopping ;)... She says eventually, in time, attitudes will change... They already have in her lifetime and she observes the next generation look set for another step forward [hopefully she is wrong ;):D]... Constantly banging on about it in her view just prolongs the timescale the 'changes' will occur... BTW she was a scout leader for a decade or so.. So she knows how 'little boys' minds 'work'...
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...but there are sexist attitudes everywhere in life and I am sure at EVERY golf club in the land. Muirfield membership becoming open to ladies will not get rid of sexism from golf clubs. But in general on a club by club basis I'd say that you most certainly can refute an accusation made that the club is institutionally or systemically sexist. There are blokes at my club that moan about the ladies being able to book tee slots during the monthly medal - that may be seen as sexism - though in general these same members would not see themselves as sexist.
Click to expand...

Just because there are sexist attitudes everywhere in life is not a reason to just ignore it. And of course allowing females to become members at the 3 clubs on the open rota they currently can not and also of the R&A, will not get of all sexism from golf clubs. I hope a lot of that will change when the current generation who run and mostly frequent them them die off and are replaced by younger people who have a more enlightened attitude and have grown up in a more inclusive society.

But I would argue strongly that the R&A could send out a very strong message, or at the very least say that for the future of the game, the situation is not acceptable. And they could start by allowing female members of the R&A.
 
I find in many clubs the ladies Section have a more sexist attitude than Men. They strive to stay as a separate section and dont try to integrate into activities outside their group. I used to take part in Mixed competitions but again found a surprising amount of ani-Men attitude so dont bother now.

In saying this there is also an amount of anti-Women attitude around which is also sad. It would be much healthier if Men and Lady sections were disolved and both sexes played as one group.
 
MegaSteve said:
My OH informs me that there is some degree of 'sexism' in everything the 'fairer sex' do in everyday life including their anointed tasks such as shopping ;)... She says eventually, in time, attitudes will change... They already have in her lifetime and she observes the next generation look set for another step forward [hopefully she is wrong ;):D]... Constantly banging on about it in her view just prolongs the timescale the 'changes' will occur... BTW she was a scout leader for a decade or so.. So she knows how 'little boys' minds 'work'...
Click to expand...

She's right..... And then she's wrong; we wouldn't even have the vote with that attitude! ;)
 
Hacker Khan said:
But I would argue strongly that the R&A could send out a very strong message, or at the very least say that for the future of the game, the situation is not acceptable. And they could start by allowing female members of the R&A.
Click to expand...

Who would they be sending that message to? Clubs and members know that sexism and sexual discrimination are not acceptable - taking Muirfield off the Open list isn't going to change anything in that respect in clubs across the land as Muirfield losing the Open doesn't affect your club or mine one iota?

Anyway - the point of my original response was to wonder why you had chosen to associate the discrimination complaints with the Loony Left? Firstly you imply the complaint is 'loony' and then that it is 'of the left'.
 
Last edited:
Hacker Khan said:
But I would argue strongly that the R&A could send out a very strong message, or at the very least say that for the future of the game, the situation is not acceptable. And they could start by allowing female members of the R&A.
Click to expand...

Are you aware that the R&A and The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews are no longer one and the same entity?


Who would want to be a member of The R and A GC of St Andrews anyway? Crap club, don't even have their own course :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top