So you know every law and rule when driving, congratulations
Another silly comment and no-one said they knew all the rules, why can't people read the posts properly and stop embellishing comments with inflammatory retorts
Is not knowing the rules the same as cheating??
- Thread starter bladeplayer
- Start date
So you know every law and rule when driving, congratulations
Another silly comment and no-one said they knew all the rules, why can't people read the posts properly and stop embellishing comments with inflammatory retorts
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
But it's a little bit different when you are out on a golf course in a fourball, none of you are 100% "sure" of the rules and there is nobody else around to ask. Without the necessary help, you have to make a snap decision based on general concensus.
Nothing to do with common sense is it?
jammydodger
Tour Winner
I would think its your responsibility to know a few of the more common and widely used rules. Things that get used many times a round...
1. What are your options for an unplayable ball
2. How to go about taking a free drop from gur/staked trees etc and when you can get the free drop in the first place
3. If you play a course with water hazards then you need to know your options for yellow and red staked hazards.
4. Options for a ball hit OOB
These would be used many times a round between the 3 or 4 of you so should they should be known as a very minimum.
1. What are your options for an unplayable ball
2. How to go about taking a free drop from gur/staked trees etc and when you can get the free drop in the first place
3. If you play a course with water hazards then you need to know your options for yellow and red staked hazards.
4. Options for a ball hit OOB
These would be used many times a round between the 3 or 4 of you so should they should be known as a very minimum.
Matty
Tour Rookie
You could re-phrase the question to:
"Is breaking the rules the same as cheating?"
I'd answer this with a firm 'no'.
The way I see it the rules can be broken 3 ways:
You know the rules and intentionally break them - that is cheating.
You know the rules and inadvertently break them - that's all about learning.
You don't know the rule(s) and break it or them - that's all about larding too.
In the latter 2 cases one must presume that the individual was not intentionally breaking the rules and would accept amy penalty (such as a DQ) and learn from their mistake next time.
"Is breaking the rules the same as cheating?"
I'd answer this with a firm 'no'.
The way I see it the rules can be broken 3 ways:
You know the rules and intentionally break them - that is cheating.
You know the rules and inadvertently break them - that's all about learning.
You don't know the rule(s) and break it or them - that's all about larding too.
In the latter 2 cases one must presume that the individual was not intentionally breaking the rules and would accept amy penalty (such as a DQ) and learn from their mistake next time.
Mungoscorner
Journeyman Pro
Where Mobiles are permitted,i have seen people call the following group through,and phone the Pro shop for a ruling when they are unsure.
Yerman
Journeyman Pro
How can you play a game if you don't have a decent idea of the rules? I appreciate strange predicaments happen in golf but many players never seem to have seen a rule book. The commomest one is not having a clue about hazards and esp lateral hazards. I played with an 11-handicapper who's played for years and didn't know the proper procedure for a lateral hazard. What about a written rules test before being given an official handicap -like a driving test? 
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
So you know every law and rule when driving, congratulations
Another silly comment and no-one said they knew all the rules, why can't people read the posts properly and stop embellishing comments with inflammatory retorts
I'm sorry, I used the quote "ignorance is no excuse, its YOUR responsibility to KNOW the rules, plain and simple "
In that quote, it's implied that every golfer should KNOW the rules. In order to KNOW the rules, really KNOW the rules, then you'd have to attend the R&A rules course. Not EVERY golfer is going to do that.
So, no, it's not a silly comment - the silly comment was clearly the "ignorance is no excuse, its YOUR responsibility to KNOW the rules, plain and simple" comment.
jammydodger
Tour Winner
Today our club was playing in a semi final of a county knockout comp at our course. Handicaps were from 10-18 but mostly the lower end. 36 hole foursomes.
Thought i'd tootle up and give them some support as I wasnt doing anything this morning. Meet a group of fellas watching our 9th green near the clubhouse and the first thing I see is a player walk up and pat something down about a foot in front of his marker. I say to the Captain did you see that and he said yes. I said he should call the penalty but he just wandered off. I walk down to meet a group playing the 11th and a ball lands on the green but from the 10th tee. Bloke finally makes it down to his ball and just picks it up and walks off the green and chucks it down. Plays the shot with both feet standing on the green (fairway wood so was a full tonk too). I'm shaking my head.
20 mins later and a bloke puts a shot near the OOB fence and decides he'll have to take a penalty drop. Marks out 2 club lengths with driver and leaves it on the floor and drops his ball and it bounces right onto his drivers shaft. Again nothing happens so I think i'll go home before I go bananas with the total lack of basic rules knowledge.
Shockingly bad and very disheartening tbh
Thought i'd tootle up and give them some support as I wasnt doing anything this morning. Meet a group of fellas watching our 9th green near the clubhouse and the first thing I see is a player walk up and pat something down about a foot in front of his marker. I say to the Captain did you see that and he said yes. I said he should call the penalty but he just wandered off. I walk down to meet a group playing the 11th and a ball lands on the green but from the 10th tee. Bloke finally makes it down to his ball and just picks it up and walks off the green and chucks it down. Plays the shot with both feet standing on the green (fairway wood so was a full tonk too). I'm shaking my head.
20 mins later and a bloke puts a shot near the OOB fence and decides he'll have to take a penalty drop. Marks out 2 club lengths with driver and leaves it on the floor and drops his ball and it bounces right onto his drivers shaft. Again nothing happens so I think i'll go home before I go bananas with the total lack of basic rules knowledge.
Shockingly bad and very disheartening tbh
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
I was off 12!!
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
So is any of these considerd cheating do you think ?? ok this was a match but say in an open of 120 players did any of these infringements constitute cheating??
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
If the Rule was broken deliberately then Yes it is cheating. That's the whole issue here. If you know the rule and deliberatly break it then that's cheating. Although you should know, if you don't it can't be cheating.
jammydodger
Tour Winner
In no way would I call any of these 'infringements' cheating as they were all done in plain sight with no intentions to try and get away with anything. Just people who dont know basic rules which doesnt help the rest of the field if its an individual comp.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Hmm interesting examples.
First one. Can we be sure it wasn't an old pitch mark he was flattening rather than a spike mark? If it was a pitch mark then there's no penalty (Rule 16-1c).
Second one. No penalty providing the ball is re-dropped - Rule 20-2a. If it wasn't it should be a 2 stroke penalty. But if it was entirely accidental and he didn't deliberately drop it on his club to get a better lie then I don't think I'd call it "cheating".
Third one, that is interesting. Rule 25-3 (wrong Putting Green) says
"a. Interference
Interference by a wrong putting green occurs when a ball is on the wrong putting green. Interference to a player’s stance or the area of his intended swing is not, of itself, interference under this Rule.
b. Relief
If a player’s ball lies on a wrong putting green, he must not play the ball as it lies. He must take relief, without penalty, as follows:
The player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief."
The Rules define nearest point of relief as
"the point on the course nearest to where the ball lies:
(i) that is not nearer the hole, and
(ii) where, if the ball were so positioned, no interference by the condition from which relief is sought would exist for the stroke the player would have made from the original position if the condition were not there."
As Rule 25-3 specifically excludes interference by a wrong putting green with a player's stance then it would seem that you can drop the ball off the green and play it even though you would still be standing on the green. (Didn't know that!)
Incidently Rule 6-1 states that
"The player and his caddie are responsible for knowing the Rules."
As I interpret it this just means that if you don't know the Rules it's your look out. Any breach, even in ignorance or innocence, still incurs the relevant penalty. E.g if your playing partner informs you wrongly you still get penalised. You are however absolved if an official referee tells you to do the wrong thing - Decision 34-2/2.
As Imurg says it's "cheating" if you deliberately break the Rules but what if someone isn't sure but deliberately doesn't check the Rules because they are trying to get a particular outcome?
Does any other game have such complicated Rules but still expect players to be self policing!
