Infringement without penalty

[NearHull]

Whilst playing an individual strokeplay competition, i played from a bunker (poorly) onto the fringe of the green. I busied myself raking the bunker etc and when I walked onto the green one player was replacing my ball. I asked what he was doing and he replied that he marked my ball as it was interfering with his stroke. He had played his stroke and was replacing my ball, he did not clean it.
I believed that he couldn’t touch my ball without asking me to mark and lift. After discussions with a referee , I understand that it was an infringement but without penalty.

The 2 rules relevant to lifting the ball situation are

1. 14.1b - re authorisation and
2. 15.3b - when relief allowed.

The referees comments. The ball was obviously interfering with his swing etc so he should either ask you to move it or ask for your permission to mark and move it. In stroke play , whilst there is an infringement, there is no penalty, however in match play 9.5 it is relevant and had he done what he did, he would get one penalty stroke.

My question is this , why have infringements without penalty?

The only thing i could identify of why there are infringements without penalties, is that if there were multiple infringements, the player could possibly be disqualified under 1.2. improper conduct.

Thoughts please on the posed question.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Where there is no advantage to be gained by any player or disadvantage to any other player or the field resulting from the action…it just shouldn’t be done as there are similar actions that may have more significant consequences? Just guessing.

 

[bobmac]

My question is this , why have infringements without penalty?

Don't do that or else.

Or else what?

Nothing.

Nonsense

 

[rulefan]

Whilst playing an individual strokeplay competition, i played from a bunker (poorly) onto the fringe of the green. I busied myself raking the bunker etc and when I walked onto the green one player was replacing my ball. I asked what he was doing and he replied that he marked my ball as it was interfering with his stroke. He had played his stroke and was replacing my ball, he did not clean it.
I believed that he couldn’t touch my ball without asking me to mark and lift. After discussions with a referee , I understand that it was an infringement but without penalty.

The 2 rules relevant to lifting the ball situation are

1. 14.1b - re authorisation and
2. 15.3b - when relief allowed.

The referees comments. The ball was obviously interfering with his swing etc so he should either ask you to move it or ask for your permission to mark and move it. In stroke play , whilst there is an infringement, there is no penalty, however in match play 9.5 it is relevant and had he done what he did, he would get one penalty stroke.

My question is this , why have infringements without penalty?

The only thing i could identify of why there are infringements without penalties, is that if there were multiple infringements, the player could possibly be disqualified under 1.2. improper conduct.

Thoughts please on the posed question.

There is no infringement in strokeplay. The other player is an outside influence by definition and Rule 9.6 covers the situation. An outside influence cannot be penalised.

 

[Steven Rules]

This exemption from penalty on the basis that another player in stroke play is an outside influence does not hold universally and does not tell the full story. For example, under 11.2b a player gets the general penalty if they deliberately deflect or stop any ball in motion. This is true whether it is the player’s own ball or a ball played by an opponent or by another player in stroke play.

 

[Steven Rules]

We had a related discussion a few days ago on the potential consequences of lifting another player’s ball without the express authorisation of the owner. See link.

Regular followers of this forum may be aware that this is an issue that irks me a lot.

See #14 onwards at:

putting an improperly replaced ball on the green

Trying to find a clarification on a green incident. After marking my ball on the side to give another player a clearer path on his putt, I improperly replaced the ball in front of the mark and made the putt. After teeing off on the next tee a competitor asked me if I replaced the ball on the...

forums.golfmonthly.com

 

[rulefan]

This exemption from penalty on the basis that another player in stroke play is an outside influence does not hold universally and does not tell the full story. For example, under 11.2b a player gets the general penalty if they deliberately deflect or stop any ball in motion. This is true whether it is the player’s own ball or a ball played by an opponent or by another player in stroke play.

But that is about an intention to influence play. This case is not.

Rule 9.6 is very specific not open to general interpretation.

 

[Steven Rules]

But that is about an intention to influence play. This case is not.

Rule 9.6 is very specific not open to general interpretation.

I obviously misundetstood the point you were making.

An outside influence cannot be penalised.

At #4 I thought you were making a universal statement that an outside influence cannot be penalised.

In response, the point I was making at #5 was that there are circumstances where an outside influence can incur a penalty.

 

[rulefan]

I obviously misundetstood the point you were making.


At #4 I thought you were making a universal statement that an outside influence cannot be penalised.

In response, the point I was making at #5 was that there are circumstances where an outside influence can incur a penalty.

#4 Within the context of the question
#5 I agree

I don't think I have disagreed with you previously but now sorted I think

 

[clubchamp98]

After the covid pandemic I find myself not picking things up anymore.

I used to pick litter bottles etc on the course but not any more.

I would not be happy with someone touching my ball without permission and think they should not be able to do it .

Fist bump and no handshakes is the norm .

 

[NearHull]

Just back from today’s Roll Up. (Not bad, thanks for asking)

Thank you for the replies from , what I believe are the well informed rule forummers, but I’m really no further on with my quest why are there infringements without penalty? It’s like having a law passed by an Act of Parliament that states ‘ Thou shall not …..’. But if you do, no problem.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just back from today’s Roll Up. (Not bad, thanks for asking)

Thank you for the replies from , what I believe are the well informed rule forummers, but I’m really no further on with my quest why are there infringements without penalty? It’s like having a law passed by an Act of Parliament that states ‘ Thou shall not …..’. But if you do, no problem.

Yes and what are you infringing if there isn’t a penalty.

 

[NearHull]

Perhaps I’m looking at it from the wrong end of the telescope. If the rules are trying to tell me that, should I carry out those actions during match play, I would receive the penalty and if I carry out the same action in Strokeplay, then that’s allowed?

 

[rulefan]

Perhaps I’m looking at it from the wrong end of the telescope. If the rules are trying to tell me that, should I carry out those actions during match play, I would receive the penalty and if I carry out the same action in Strokeplay, then that’s allowed?

It's the difference between an Opponent and the definition of an Outside Influence. One has a vested interest in any possible affect on your score. The other arguably doesn't

 

[clubchamp98]

It's the difference between an Opponent and the definition of an Outside Influence. One has a vested interest in any possible affect on your score. The other arguably doesn't

Surley both do.
In a medal he’s part of the field trying to beat you and everyone else.

 

[rulefan]

Surley both do.
In a medal he’s part of the field trying to beat you and everyone else.

Outside Influences don't play much golf

 

[NearHull]

Perhaps the confusion in Strokeplay is that the Outside Influence is also a fellow Competitor and don’t all competitors have a duty to protect the rest of the field?

 

[Swango1980]

After the covid pandemic I find myself not picking things up anymore.

I used to pick litter bottles etc on the course but not any more.

I would not be happy with someone touching my ball without permission and think they should not be able to do it .

Fist bump and no handshakes is the norm .

I remember the days of the fist bump after a round of golf.

However, the norm is definitely hand shakes where I play. Probably not had a fist bump since 2022, and I play a lot of golf with a lot of different people.