High Bombing Draw/Hook

[Craigg]

Ok, here goes.
I went for some coaching a month or so ago. My stock iron shot was a floaty type weak open faced, but straight shot. My destructive shot was a big straight pull. Video footage clearly showed a horrible out to in path with an almost flick of the wrists at the bottom. The advice was to make a better turn on the backswing, and my grip was strengthened from a weak, (something which I initiated myself to try and cure the pull) grip, to a more neutral grip.
Anyway a month on and a lot of structured practice, I am now the proud owner of a slight in to out path. Now I am over the moon with my consistent ball striking. 9 out of 10 are coming straight out of the middle of the face. Unfortunately I now have a big high bombing draw/hook to contend with. Path is still in to out, but the face is so closed at impact, the ball starts left and moves left in the air. As I say, it's not a duck hook, it's actually a really high long hook, sweetly struck. My lesson this evening saw me trying to press the hands slightly ahead of the ball at address and impact, to keep the face pointing slightly right of target. The ones I did connect with were straighter, but wow, what a loss of distance, almost back to square one with my old floaty high shot!
I am now officially at banging my head against the wall stage as I feel I have come full circle.
I actually like the feel of the big high hook as it does fizz off the face, but I realise I can't play with that shot. It's just not practical.
Any advice on how to go forward from here would be much appreciated.

 

[MrBrightside]

I'd change my pro if I was coming out of my lesson with this much tension - surely they should be giving you the answers and the exercises to work on. Notwithstanding the reassurances.

 

[the_coach]

in relation to the 0º of the ball/target line what's the direction of the balls first line of travel, just straight at target then curves left, just a little ways right of target then curves left, a good ways right of target then curves left, or does it start little ways left of target then curve further left?
where is your shoulder line pointing to at address?

with your now 'neutral grip' where do the 'V's point to (relation to chin & tip of right shoulder) how many knuckles on the left hand do you see at address, what part/side of the grip does your right thumb rest on? (center top, left side or somewhere different)

where's your weight & where is your chest pointing to at finish?
is your right foot up on the toes?

if you had lesson on launch monitor do you know what your swing path was in degrees?

 

[Craigg]

in relation to the 0º of the ball/target line what's the direction of the balls first line of travel, just straight at target then curves left, just a little ways right of target then curves left, a good ways right of target then curves left, or does it start little ways left of target then curve further left?
where is your shoulder line pointing to at address?

with your now 'neutral grip' where do the 'V's point to (relation to chin & tip of right shoulder) how many knuckles on the left hand do you see at address, what part/side of the grip does your right thumb rest on? (center top, left side or somewhere different)

where's your weight & where is your chest pointing to at finish?
is your right foot up on the toes?

if you had lesson on launch monitor do you know what your swing path was in degrees?

Many thanks for the reply.
Ok. I'll try and answer your questions.
Ball is starting a small amount left, then hooking left in flight. Left hand grip, (I'm right handed) V is pointing at the right shoulder, right hand, V is pointing between right shoulder and middle of chest. Shoulders are square to feet and target. Chest is facing target and right foot is up on toes with weight on the outside of the left foot at the finish.
No launch monitor data, only super slow motion video replay.
I feel as if I'm so close to a good consistent swing. As I say the high hook is a really sweetly struck ball. My pro reckons I'm still marginally flicking at it at the bottom, a legacy from my out to in swing. His suggestion to press the hands slightly forward at address and through impact does indeed straighten me up, but I've lost 20 yards off my 8 iron, almost as if I am now striking the ball with an open face/too much loft etc.

 

[the_coach]

if you in a series of lessons with PGA Pro then that's something you need to continue to work through anything you unsure of you need to ask, often folks don't for fear of feeling a little ways foolish.
but you need to, to be sure you are really going away in-between times working on the right stuff in practice. keep a notebook, better if you can have access to look at your lesson vids online not just during the lessons too. or if that not possible at the lesson get some of the good swings down on your cell, useful as a visual reminder for practice.

you've worked on path & no doubt have moved it some so now not major out to in.

but the shot you describe is more a pull hook. so clubhead still traveling left through impact (so it's not swinging in to out) but with some face angle rotation so face also closing through impact. ball starts left curves a ways further left.

bunch of things can causes this.

ball position for one a little ways too far forwards something to watch for in practice.

the downswing starting down from the top so the arms/right shoulder move out first off from the top so swing little ways out to in.
not enough rotation through the motion - hip/body turns stalls doesn't turn left enough (this can be because of the fear of the ball going left but it has the opposite effect) so arms hands take over & keep going, bit of a flip & turnover.

also the weight not really transferring over to the left to start transition so this then can bring on both of the last couple of things, downswing starting from top & out plus the clear & rotation possible issues.

if, stress if, the above in italic is an issue & your lefthand is now as strong as it sounds it might be. a ways forwards would be - if on a clock face 12 is looking at target, currently your likely swinging little ways more to 11am, feel your swinging more towards 1pm (so contact with ball is the inside back quarter) the lefthand at impact the knuckles more still facing little upwards rather than down to ground.

the chest at finish are in the full swings you see from good players facing a ways left of target, not towards target. so if your chest finishes looking to target could well be weight & rotation through the motion is not quite where it would be better being.

would talk any of the above through with your Pro may well be he's working to get you in a position to develop this further through the lessons anyways - or if might not be what he wants.

the last point you mention about- open face too much loft - isn't going to be true if you keep hitting more of the pull hooks. but could develop if you fearing going left so not really transferring the weight through good rotation & hip clearance in the downswing.

often times as a reaction to fearing the left side, coming into impact the hands are pushed too far forwards plus lifted up so the shaft far too vertical, heel up toe down, subconscious reaction that does keep the face from turning over so stays open through impact ball goes right a ways.

drill that you can do that would help the pull hooks. starting out instead of the extra balls would place a small rolled towel, hybrid head cover of small empty water bottle - cause less damage than striking the balls! again though would run it by your Pro first off.

[video=youtube_share;da8wYarEeSM]http://youtu.be/da8wYarEeSM[/video]

 

[Craigg]

Wow, what a response. Many thanks for taking the time and trouble. Some really good stuff to chew over.
I did wonder and question my path with the pro, but he is adamant it is slightly in to out, and it's purely clubface that's causing the slight pull and big hook. I was always under the impression (something which you seem to confirm), that it is the path that causes the initial ball flight, and the clubface that determines the spin left or right. i.e. open to path slices, closed to path hooks.
It must be so slight that the only definite way of confirming it is a launch monitor.

 

[bobmac]

I was always under the impression (something which you seem to confirm), that it is the path that causes the initial ball flight, and the clubface that determines the spin left or right. i.e. open to path slices, closed to path hooks.

It's actually the opposite
Clubface determines direction and path gives it the side spin

 

[the_coach]

no club face angle is mostly responsible for the starting direction, path affects the spin axis. you could still be swinging at 0º so straight. but doubt your swinging in to out over much.

but that fact that ball flight starting left, face is looking left with ball then curving further left & face so also likely closing down, swing path direction likely still to be a little left or virtually bang on 0º.

 

[Craigg]

Interesting stuff guys, and definitely food for thought. Thanks again. It appears my closed face at impact is the big issue here. Will persevere with my drills of pushing the hands forward. Two weeks until my next session and I'll go from there.