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Hard Hitting Motorbike Video

JustOne said:
Alas,... the thinking of many a biker I expect.


How about "If the child hadn't of kicked the ball in the road and run out without seeing me I could have bombed past him regardless of speed" :rolleyes:

VRoooooooooooommmmmm! :whistle:
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Yeah, very good, selectively quote part of what I said without the context. You're a clever guy.
 
FairwayDodger said:
Sad you insisted on making this a cars vs bikes thread.
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You said the driver was 'largely to blame', that puts you on the 'bike side'. Your other posts pretty much defend the biker (and/or biking in general) which you are entitled to do, and I'm entitled to disagree. It's not a cars V bikes thread in my opinion, the biker wasn't visible (IMO) and was riding like an idiot, as others have said he was making the road dangerous for all others using it.

If you want to talk about bikers in general then yes some do ride safely and yes a lot of drivers don't pay enough attention to bikes. There are also a lot of riders out there that should have their bikes taken away from them... as there are drivers that shouldn't be behind the wheel.
 
JustOne said:
Indeed, I totally agree... We ALL have a responsibility not to do 90+mph and overtake just as we're approaching a junction.

I can uphold my end of that responsibility.
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Unfortunately you are not prepared to accept any responsibility for awareness of others.

Thankfully our legal system does not, in this case, share your reckless attitude.
 
JustOne said:
You said the driver was 'largely to blame', that puts you on the 'bike side'.
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Semantics. I see how you could draw that opinion but it's not what I intended. Both were to blame. The accident would not have occurred without the actions of both parties. That is the point I was trying to make, not to divvy up responsibility.

Do you have any comment on the cycling video I posted where the car driver makes the same mistake but without any speed "excuse" on the part of the cyclist?
 
Have just come back from the range and had a very interesting conversion, A guy in the next bay started chatting to me he was a retired police motor bike rider and knew the officer who headed up the investigation.

I did not bring this video up we were just chatting and he brought it up.

His opinion was that the bike rider was quite irresponsible, he commented on the start of the journey and the rider was riding very fast from the off without any time to get settled into his ride, he then went on to comment on the fact that even though the car driver did not see the bike he was traveling at 147 feet a second (a par 3 every 3 seconds) and the bike rider himself was overtaking on chevrons approaching a junction while doing so the bike would of seen the car and made no attempt to slow himself and just kept the power on throughout the junction. Had the motorcyclist reacted to the car by slowing and anticipating a mistake he may be alive today.

This comment was HIS OPINION only and he did feel there was blame on both parts after all it was an accident however he felt the bike rider was quite irresponsible by not slowing for the junction having seen the car, as he said the car was going into the central turning area he was never going to go left. Sometimes you need to anticipate others mistakes

This chap was also an advanced driving trainer and felt more people should attend an advanced driving course.
 
Accidents "don't just happen".
Most, if not all, motor accidents happen because somebody wasn't concentrating.
This accident happened because somebody wasn't concentrating fully and the thing that didn't help was the other party was acting like an idiot.
If it had been another car overtaking at over 90mph where the bike did, and slammed into the car turning right killing the occupant, everybody would be baying for the drivers blood. But the biker was killed, so we can't do that.
I lost another mate last year in a motorcyle accident. As nice a bloke as he was, he used to ride like an utter idiot at times, and had plenty of near misses. That was the way he lived his life.
He was killed in similar circumstances by a car pulling out of a side road without looking properly.
Nobody else was with him that day, nobody else can confirm how fast he was going. But knowing Dave the way I knew him, he would have been going hell for leather as he always did.
If you live by the sword, you will die by the sword.
It's just a shame that an innocent driver was involved...
 
JustOne said:
On the contrary I'm far from reckless, my diesel estate car has a calendar for a speedo and I've never had an accident.

Been burnt up by a lot of 'reckless' motorcyclists though :thup:
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What? No reckless car, lorry or bus-drivers!

How very fortunate you have been.
 
MetalMickie said:
What? No reckless car, lorry or bus-drivers!
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I don't think I've been 'burnt up' by many lorries or busses :p

Of course (as I said in a previous reply) there are some car drivers who shouldn't be on the road and if one was overtaking into a junction at 90+mph then (in this scenario) I'd be blaming him, although two cars side by side would be more visible to the car in the central turning area and he might have stayed put.
 
Just thinking out loud.....

In a 40mph zone a driver hits a child (who ran in the road) at 40mph and kills him - who is to blame?

In a 40mph zone a driver hits a child (who ran in the road) at 50mph and kills him - who is to blame?

How does BREAKING THE LAW affect who is to blame in YOUR eyes (that question is to anybody reading)

How about in a 40mph zone the driver hits the child at 40mph and kills him but he (the driver) had a couple of beers first? how much more accountable does he become?
 
JustOne said:
Just thinking out loud.....

In a 40mph zone a driver hits a child (who ran in the road) at 40mph and kills him - who is to blame?

In a 40mph zone a driver hits a child (who ran in the road) at 50mph and kills him - who is to blame?

How does BREAKING THE LAW affect who is to blame in YOUR eyes (that question is to anybody reading)

How about in a 40mph zone the driver hits the child at 40mph and kills him but he (the driver) had a couple of beers first? how much more accountable does he become?
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Without knowing the exact circumstances it's impossible and pointless to try and apportion blame.

There could be 100s of other details in such incidents which need to be looked at (the weather, was the child visible or not, could the driver have reasonably expected the child run out into the road etc etc), and our justice system does that. We do not live in a black/white world where there is an easy excuse or blame for every incident or accident.
 
Hacker Khan said:
Without knowing the exact circumstances it's impossible and pointless to try and apportion blame.

There could be 100s of other details in such incidents which need to be looked at (the weather, was the child visible or not, could the driver have reasonably expected the child run out into the road etc etc), and our justice system does that. We do not live in a black/white world where there is an easy excuse or blame for every incident or accident.
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Yeh good answer I wasn't thinking that deeply into the circumstances rather a gut reaction as to how we apportion blame in general. My gut instinct (without knowing the law in full) is that the 50mph guy and the drinker are royally screwed, definitely the 50mph guy because he is speeding, more so the drinker (probably some pretty hefty jail time) even though he would have hit the child even without a drink, whilst the 40mph guy could (possibly) not have done anything wrong. Could a child step out in the road (lets say from behind a parked car) and the 50mph & drinker NOT get done?
 
JustOne said:
I don't think I've been 'burnt up' by many lorries or busses :p

Of course (as I said in a previous reply) there are some car drivers who shouldn't be on the road and if one was overtaking into a junction at 90+mph then (in this scenario) I'd be blaming him, although two cars side by side would be more visible to the car in the central turning area and he might have stayed put.
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Do you mean there are no "boy racers" in your part of the world? How strange!

As for bus-drivers I suppose I must have found the only one who could not see a motor-cycle with lights on doing 20-25 mph in traffic. His excuse was "I was giving a signal".

If you have never encountered a lorry driver in a cab, no trailer, wanting to "race" you on country roads then again you must lead a very sheltered life.

There are good and bad in all categories of road users but just because someone falls into the bad category does not absolve us of the responsibility to look out for them.

When I first went onto the roads at 16 I was told to treat all other road users as unpredictable idiots bent on causing me harm and that way I would never be shocked but might sometimes get a pleasant surprise.

Far too often these days people regard themselves as so important that it is the duty of the rest of us to make way for them as their journey is clearly more important than anyone else's.

Selfish, inconsiderate driving/riding (including speeding & not seeing other users) is IMO the root cause of the vast majority of "accidents".
 
FairwayDodger said:
Have you actually read anything I've written on that? NOWHERE have I attempted to justify or excuse the biker; he was an idiot riding at those speeds through that junction.
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Your comment implies that you think it would have been fine if the junction wasn't there? This is the issue for me with bikers......and I mean the Sunday "get yer knee down" brigade who give all the rest a bad name. As others have commented, I too don't know any sports bike owner who doesn't think it's a passport to speed and isn't intent on riding at those sorts of speeds every single time they go out for a "thrash"........and nowhere near enough is done to stop them.
 
MetalMickie said:
When I first went onto the roads at 16 I was told to treat all other road users as unpredictable idiots bent on causing me harm and that way I would never be shocked but might sometimes get a pleasant surprise.
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Indeed, that's my sentiment in my car!

I appreciate that being a motorcyclist must feel like taking your life in your hands even on the best of days.
 
Fyldewhite said:
Your comment implies that you think it would have been fine if the junction wasn't there? This is the issue for me with bikers......and I mean the Sunday "get yer knee down" brigade who give all the rest a bad name. As others have commented, I too don't know any sports bike owner who doesn't think it's a passport to speed and isn't intent on riding at those sorts of speeds every single time they go out for a "thrash"........and nowhere near enough is done to stop them.
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Another one trying to twist my words.

The biker's speed was unacceptable anywhere, any time. Better?
 
Pretty shocking video

I'd agree you have to think about hazards and in particular bikes, all the time

Here the ratio of cars to motorbikes is about 1:1 (in the UK I think it’s about 30:1)

It certainly doesn’t eliminate accidents on the island but because of the sheer frequency and volume of them it means that since being here I expect to encounter a bike at every possible junction on any length of journey and if I can’t see it, I listen for it, because it’s there somewhere, so the habit of looking for them is ever present (& many are relying on me to save them from themselves)

I know from driving in the UK I could easily go a couple of days without seeing a bike (longer in poor weather)

Many are doing stupid things (as are car drivers) however the cars are easier to see and unable/slower to carry out the manoeuvres of a bike

I hope the video has the desired effect
 
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