Groove Rule loophole

[StuartD]

From Ian Carter's blog on the bbc website

"John Daly and Dean Wilson were using Ping Eye 2 wedges that have the outlawed "boxed" grooves and despite the introduction of new rules banning their use there was nothing to prevent those players from legally playing with the clubs.

They exploited a loophole that stretches back to the great battle between the rules makers, the USGA, and the club manufacturer Ping. The eventual court settlement ruled that all Ping clubs made prior to 1990 would remain legal in perpetuity.

So the wedges dug out of Daly and Wilson's garages are immune from the new rules that have been brought in to make it more difficult for players to control shots with spin from thick rough."

Pretty sure my dad has some in his loft. Wonder if any pro's will be interested

 

[Swinger]

There are loads going for a good bit of cash on ebay.

Always hard to know when to sell though, they might be worth the usual £5 - £20 in a few months or £200. fetching a fair bit atm though.

 

[JustOne]

Pretty sure my dad has some in his loft. Wonder if any pro's will be interested

I'd get my name etched on them and then post them to John Daly for free.... hopefully I'd see my club win a tournament

 

[USER1999]

It is the only way your clubs are ever going to win anything.

 

[JustOne]

It is the only way your clubs are ever going to win anything.

Shortest drive, most trees hit, most missed putts..... all winners!

 

[birdieman]

This might warrant a new post but I hate this one rule for one, one rule for another scenario with grooves. If the R&A/USGA were determined to control the drive and wedge brigade they should've grown the rough higher - didn't see too many at the US Open able to spin it out of the rough with ease. That's because they had proper penal rough set up there.
Now we have a situation where we are no longer able to enjoy watching pros hit those really low fast chips that stop dead. We as amateurs are allowed to play them however. That has split golf into 2 different games, amateur and pro. I think that's bad.
Whether the grooves rule is right or wrong it should be applied across the board. If the ruling bodies were worried about amateurs having to bin 'illegal' clubs they should've given it 3 or 4 years before implementing the groove rule change for the pros too.
Personally watching the pros play now round the greens isn't any better at all, watching really low flying zippy spinning shots was much cooler.
Have I got this all wrong? I just don't feel the pros short game shots are as good to watch as before. I liked the aggressive spinny checking shots more than the roll out ones. It's one of the shots I can play and the only shot I have people ever ask me 'how do you do that?' because they want to do it too. They are great fun to play too.
Any thoughts?

 

[freddielong]

I agree it should have been brought in across the board it seems strange that they have chosen now to split the amatuer and pro equipment rules. I think elite amatuers are in the strangest position having to use different clubs and grooves at different times.

 

[USER1999]

I think this rule might help some of them. I watched a skins game with Karlsson playing, and he had to pitch at the back of the green, or he spun it off the front. Now that won't happen anymore, he is going to be more accurate, not less.

I don't watch much golf, so I can't comment on whether it is more, or less exciting than watching paint dry.

I think the rules should be for all though, even though most of us will remain unaffected by the groove change as we don't get good enough contact anyway.

 

[HRC99]

You would have thought that they would have included this loophole in the current regulations.

Personally, I've got a mint set of Ping Eye 2s in the cupboard under the stairs that I'm waiting for a big money offer for!

 

[birdieman]

I watched a skins game with Karlsson playing, and he had to pitch at the back of the green, or he spun it off the front. Now that won't happen anymore, he is going to be more accurate, not less.

I think the rules should be for all though, even though most of us will remain unaffected by the groove change as we don't get good enough contact anyway.

On the first point players could play that shot by taking spin off the ball by playing a less lofted club - TW was very good at that on links. They have less options of what to do now I think which isn't good.

Re the other thought I think plenty low handicappers can get good enough contact especially with short irons to notice great differences when we do eventually have to conform to v grooves ourselves. I can play short game shots now with my vokeys that I couldn't dream of 20 years ago.

 

[Dodger]

We have a situation where by some lads at our club would have to use a different set of hooks to enable them to take part in Open Regional Qualifying held at our course....they would have to buy another set than those clubs that they use week in week out in club comps.

Best of it is though they are better players than many of those 'Pro's' that enter....same clubs/rules accross the board should have been the answer but then we would have had a huge cost/policing issue.

 

[JustOne]

Now we have a situation where we are no longer able to enjoy watching pros hit those really low fast chips that stop dead. We as amateurs are allowed to play them however. That has split golf into 2 different games, amateur and pro. I think that's bad.

I don't agree, firstly you can still stop the ball with nice, new, sharp V grooves, you just won't get the backspin and secondly the game is already divided - our courses are not like the ones they play, even if they play a good UK course it has special preperation for up to 6 months prior to their few rounds. As mentioned though, for the really good amateurs (semi-pro) it might be a drag but then so is going to play on greens that haven't been cut for 48 hours

 

[SammmeBee]

We have a situation where by some lads at our club would have to use a different set of hooks to enable them to take part in Open Regional Qualifying held at our course....they would have to buy another set than those clubs that they use week in week out in club comps.

Best of it is though they are better players than many of those 'Pro's' that enter....same clubs/rules accross the board should have been the answer but then we would have had a huge cost/policing issue.

I don't believe this is the case for Regional Open Qualifers....

 

[Dodger]

I may be incorrect but going on what a couple have told me....I would be surprised if it isn't the case as ultimately it is part of qualifying for the Open.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree that it is divisive at the moment but wheter wittingly or not, amateurs are complying now as all the wedges sold are newrule compliant so anyone upgrading their wedges or buying a new set of iron will automatically get them. I agree that I'd rather see a penal rough like the US Open which promotes better course management and better players profit. Short game stuff around the green is becoming very dull to watch

 

[Screwback]

I may be incorrect but going on what a couple have told me....I would be surprised if it isn't the case as ultimately it is part of qualifying for the Open.

You are correct dodg...sorry coach

I understand there was also talk of it being introduced at county and national level not sure if this is true

 

[SammmeBee]

I am confused now....thought it didn't apply to Ams until 2024....so all you need is to buy a 14 year supply of Vokey's tomorrow!!

 

[Dodger]

Talking to my old man earlier and he said he thought he had heard it was 'any groves you want' in Regional Qualifying then new conforming there after.

That to me just sounds like a total bloody hashed up mess if true!

Sure it must be out there somewhere but I canny be arsed to trail the web....entry form maybe explain all this bollocks?!

 

[viscount17]

Additionally, another change means that competitors at The Open; International Final Qualifying – Australasia, Asia, America and Europe; and at Local Final Qualifying will be subject to the new clubface groove regulations as per Decision 4-1/1 of Decisions on the Rules of Golf.

The change brings the R&A into line with the USGA, which adopted the same prohibition against wide, sharp-edged clubface grooves for its top events starting in 2010. The two organizations jointly administer the “Rules of Golf” and conforming equipment list.

http://www.suncountrygolf.com/golf-news/british-open-tweaks-eligibility-adopts-new-groove-rules/

 

[Dodger]

Additionally, another change means that competitors at The Open; International Final Qualifying – Australasia, Asia, America and Europe; and at Local Final Qualifying will be subject to the new clubface groove regulations as per Decision 4-1/1 of Decisions on the Rules of Golf.

The change brings the R&A into line with the USGA, which adopted the same prohibition against wide, sharp-edged clubface grooves for its top events starting in 2010. The two organizations jointly administer the “Rules of Golf” and conforming equipment list.

http://www.suncountrygolf.com/golf-news/british-open-tweaks-eligibility-adopts-new-groove-rules/

Ah but!....read Conditions A (9).....seems that you can play in the Regional and African Qualifiying with different clubs to those for the rest of the Championship or am I reading this wrong?

If not what a total arse of a system!

http://webservices.twii.net/acrobatforms/EntryForm2010.pdf