English Golfers

[Doon frae Troon]

Not a wind up but a genuine debate as I was involved in junior development in the 1990's where I watched Lee Westwood, Gary Harris, Michael Welch, Simon Dyson, David Howell and Luke Donald as young teenagers.

England must have the the second largest golfing population in the world.
Why do you think that in recent years they fail to produce players who can win Majors?

 

[brendy]

Not a wind up but a genuine debate as I was involved in junior development in the 1990's where I watched Lee Westwood, Gary Harris, Michael Welch, Simon Dyson, David Howell and Luke Donald as young teenagers.

England must have the the second largest golfing population in the world.
Why do you think that in recent years they fail to produce players who can win Majors?

If you can prove that bit Id be surprised.
Japan, China, america at least have got to have more golfers than england, in fact Scotland musnt be far off neither.

 

[Snelly]

Of course it is a wind up.

Someone with an equal lack of subtlety could suggest; Why does Scotland have so many good courses and no decent players? Why did Scotland used to produce some of the world's best footballers and now they can't produce a player that can trap a bag of cement?

Etc Etc. And by the way I am not interested in the answers to the questions above. Just illustrating the point.



A very poor attempt at winding everyone up. Boring.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Japan and Canada have a similar number of courses but I would imagine less members.

Snelly , you are wrong.

 

[Snelly]

Snelly , you are wrong.

Not often. In this instance though, as you insist, I accept I might be mistaken. Please accept my apologies.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

England must have the the second largest golfing population in the world.
Why do you think that in recent years they fail to produce players who can win Majors?

The last Englishman to win a Major was Faldo in 1996, was it not..?

Tiger Woods turned pro that same year, and won his first Major the year after.

Coming up against the best player to ever live (in the opinion of many) has probably had something of an effect on things.

 

[Fader]

If you can prove that bit Id be surprised.
Japan, China, america at least have got to have more golfers than england, in fact Scotland musnt be far off neither.

Beat me to it, I'd be very surprised if England were even in the top 4 of number of golfers what with the inlfux of golf in Asia.

Why does Scotland have so many good courses and no decent players?

Equally good point.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Not often. In this instance though, as you insist, I accept I might be mistaken. Please accept my apologies.

Accepted thanks.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The last Englishman to win a Major was Faldo in 1996, was it not..?

Tiger Woods turned pro that same year, and won his first Major the year after.

Coming up against the best player to ever live (in the opinion of many) has probably had something of an effect on things.

Irish players seemed to have managed five wins.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

Irish players seemed to have managed five wins.

Fair point, well made.

I don't think it's a new phenomenon though, you have to go back to before WWII to find golfers from outside of the US winning Majors on a regular basis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_major_golf_championships

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Fair point, well made.

I don't think it's a new phenomenon though, you have to go back to before WWII to find golfers from outside of the US winning Majors on a regular basis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_major_golf_championships

If you apply the same argument to tennis the Wimbledon structure was aimed at stopping youngsters play [or at least putting them off].
The EGU was like that in the 1970's, since then they have introduced golf to a great many young players with the Golf Starter Centers, something I was involved with.
There seems to be funding to take top young players into the early years of being a professional but perhaps it is not focused enough.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Re Irish, The Saffys seem to be doing very well to.

 

[brendy]

Irish golfers have managed 7 Harrington got 3, Rory 2, Gmac and Clarkey all in the last 6 and a bit years, Id dare say that isnt the end of the run neither. Its cyclic though, you get runs of good and bad dispersed amongst the average.

Irish players seemed to have managed five wins.

 

[thecraw]

Of course it is a wind up.

Someone with an equal lack of subtlety could suggest; Why does Scotland have so many good courses and no decent players? Why did Scotland used to produce some of the world's best footballers and now they can't produce a player that can trap a bag of cement?

Etc Etc. And by the way I am not interested in the answers to the questions above. Just illustrating the point.



A very poor attempt at winding everyone up. Boring.

Basically I'd assume its like English golf. If your face fits then you stand a better chance. The SGU set up is elitist and add in the fact that Regional Golf Unions are an absolute farce then you get some sort of idea why grass roots golf in Scotland is at an all time low. I pay two regional golf unions money which basically goes to paying jollies for the scratch team and providing them with kit and possibly a lesson or two. What do I see out of it? What does junior golf see or get out of it? I've never once heard of Renfrewshire Golf Union giving free junior golf lessons or inputs to young golfers. All I ever heard was we need more funding. Well my answer is for what????

I don't know about Ayrshire or A&B Golf Unions but I'll no doubt find out.

 

[birdieman]

Martin Laird won on PGA tour the other week and Stephen Gallagher won in UAE earlier this year so we have some 'decent' players if no world class players.

England had a lot of great players recently but Poulter, Westwood, Casey, Fisher, Howell, Donald all seem to be on the wane a bit, Rose is Englands best player these days.

Snooker, track cycling and curling seems to be our thiing just now, oh and one world class tennis player.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Crawford.
Ayrshire have a decent junior golf set up but seem to have a very poor coaching set up. Gregor would probably be the best judge of that, ask how much county coaching he does next time you see him?
From what I have seen of Scottish development, at the top, it looks poor and underfunded. The quality of the players seem good though. Like the fitba we seem to be good up until they reach 17/18 year old.

England is very well funded but seems to waste much of that working at the top level with players who are not good enough.

In GENERAL terms from my experience, a 4 handicap junior will get much more funding and coaching in England than a 2 handicapper will in Scotland.

Brendy......tell us why the Irish are so good?

 

[FairwayDodger]

The last Englishman to win a Major was Faldo in 1996, was it not..?

Tiger Woods turned pro that same year, and won his first Major the year after.

Coming up against the best player to ever live (in the opinion of many) has probably had something of an effect on things.

Not wanting to pick on English golfers since the same can easily be said of Scots (other than one Lawrie win) but I'm a bit fed up with this particular argument.... (it's often used to justify Monty's failure to win one, for example) There have been > 60 majors during this "Tiger Era" of which he has won 14 so plenty of opportunity for others to pick some up!

 

[stevek1969]

Basically I'd assume its like English golf. If your face fits then you stand a better chance. The SGU set up is elitist and add in the fact that Regional Golf Unions are an absolute farce then you get some sort of idea why grass roots golf in Scotland is at an all time low. I pay two regional golf unions money which basically goes to paying jollies for the scratch team and providing them with kit and possibly a lesson or two. What do I see out of it? What does junior golf see or get out of it? I've never once heard of Renfrewshire Golf Union giving free junior golf lessons or inputs to young golfers. All I ever heard was we need more funding. Well my answer is for what????

I don't know about Ayrshire or A&B Golf Unions but I'll no doubt find out.

As Craw says the SGU is very elitist and the fee we pay the SGU for the jollies has just paid for a guy i know who is in the squad to spend 2 months in Dubai and South Africa playing and practising . Not much is spent on junior golf in this country but fair play to my club who are paying half my young lads lessons over the next 10 weeks.

I think its due to the XBOX Playstation culture that you hardly see any kids playing golf, football etc, when i was there age i was never in always running about either football or golf.

 

[brendy]

Crawford.


In GENERAL terms from my experience, a 4 handicap junior will get much more funding and coaching in England than a 2 handicapper will in Scotland.

Brendy......tell us why the Irish are so good?

Could be down to a very good crop of decent coaches around the island at the moment, could be a coincedence, could be a million things, I dont know.
I do know that a lot of irish clubs have really cottoned onto junior golf, certainly our place and Pro Stevie do an awful lot for the wee guys and gals.
One very good side of it is tourism though, golfing holidays to certainly at least the north coast inc Donegal have increased which isnt a bad thing in my eyes.

 

[Foxholer]

I was involved in junior development in the 1990's

Could this be why?