England Summer Test Series

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Some poor shots , some good bowling and great catching but England poor overall - going to be a fight to get anything out of this , the Pakistan bowlers have managed to get something from the pitch - Was Root right to bat ?
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Some poor shots , some good bowling and great catching but England poor overall - going to be a fight to get anything out of this , the Pakistan bowlers have managed to get something from the pitch - Was Root right to bat ?
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If the ball moves an iota England's batsmen have no answer, if it spins an iota they have no answer. Little more than flat track bullies.
 
Tongo said:
If the ball moves an iota England's batsmen have no answer, if it spins an iota they have no answer. Little more than flat track bullies.
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Said it earlier today. Our batsmen put the bad ball away very well.

Trouble is that they struggle against the good ball.
 
England test cricket - simply not good enough

Who do you blame? Discuss

For me the selection process seems flawed. Lots of good young players around the county scene with bat and ball not given a chance and if they are are discarded after a bad performance (reminiscent of the 80's policy). Why not start a rebuild (lots of players starting to get on) and give youth a chance and time to learn and develop on the test stage and in different conditions
 
HomerJSimpson said:
England test cricket - simply not good enough

Who do you blame? Discuss

For me the selection process seems flawed. Lots of good young players around the county scene with bat and ball not given a chance and if they are are discarded after a bad performance (reminiscent of the 80's policy). Why not start a rebuild (lots of players starting to get on) and give youth a chance and time to learn and develop on the test stage and in different conditions
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The selectors have had decent options but have gone for the hollywood choices. So there's the likes of Burns, Gubbins and Hildreth with the bat and Ball, Woakes (very good in england) and even Overton with the ball. And Foakes should be in the overall mix as well.

But they've gone for Buttler and Wood (never seems to produce but is loved cos of his pace) which for me is style over substance.
 
Tongo said:
The selectors have had decent options but have gone for the hollywood choices. So there's the likes of Burns, Gubbins and Hildreth with the bat and Ball, Woakes (very good in england) and even Overton with the ball. And Foakes should be in the overall mix as well.

But they've gone for Buttler and Wood (never seems to produce but is loved cos of his pace) which for me is style over substance.
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The selectors have to be careful not to get back to the "next cab off the rank" syndrome.

Many were happy to see Stoneman and Malan given their chances but after 10 and 12 Tests it's beginning to look as though they may not be the answer and Wood flatters to deceive.

But the questions has to be is County cricket producing sufficient potential Test cricketers?
 
Tongo said:
The selectors have had decent options but have gone for the hollywood choices. So there's the likes of Burns, Gubbins and Hildreth with the bat and Ball, Woakes (very good in england) and even Overton with the ball. And Foakes should be in the overall mix as well.

But they've gone for Buttler and Wood (never seems to produce but is loved cos of his pace) which for me is style over substance.
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It’s a disgrace that Hildreth has never been given a chance , would have had him in during this series at 3 and also don’t see what Overton has done wrong to be left out , would have had him in instead of Wood. I think Buttler should be keeper to allow Bairstow to concentrate on batting.

The opener is the trickey spot - no idea who should go there but for me the first thing they need to do is remove the captaincy from Root , it smack of Botham and giving him it because he’s the best player, there is no reason why Cook shouldn’t still be skipper
 
Cook shouldn't be captain because he was dull and uninspiring in that role. His time was up. However I agree with your assessment of Root and the captaincy.
 
Right now Cook is the obvious choice because no one else is standing out - Root is poor and it’s affecting his batting right now and he can’t win. Cook for someone who was “dull and uninspiring” still managed to win plenty tests and big series wins. It’s poor at the moment and Root being captain is a big reason
 
Did they win because of his captaincy or despite it? At the end I would argue it was the latter. He had been a good captain but it catches up with players and his time had come.

Cook's form for the last 12 months has been poor and if alternative options had been there he would have been dropped. You can't have someone in that position as your captain, it becomes a distraction.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Did they win because of his captaincy or despite it? At the end I would argue it was the latter. He had been a good captain but it catches up with players and his time had come.

Cook's form for the last 12 months has been poor and if alternative options had been there he would have been dropped. You can't have someone in that position as your captain, it becomes a distraction.
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There is no one else with the experience or the ability to captain right now , Root clearly can’t do it , Stokes has issues , both Anderson and Broad just aren’t captain material and anyone else isn’t a guaranteed spot so you need to sort something out soon. Cook will never get the credit he deserves as a captain - only Vaughan beats him for test wins I believe and the last poor series in India clouds a lot - statements like “win despite his captaincy” just sums up the lack of respect for him as a captain. His record shows that. A lot of Cooks issues right now are done to a lack of a solid partner and also a poor no 3. Unless you can nominate someone better then Cook should still be captain until they can find someone else
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Did they win because of his captaincy or despite it? At the end I would argue it was the latter. He had been a good captain but it catches up with players and his time had come.

Cook's form for the last 12 months has been poor and if alternative options had been there he would have been dropped. You can't have someone in that position as your captain, it becomes a distraction.
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Agree with you on this. I suspect that unless he has a stellar summer this season could be his last. Don't see him continuing in County cricket.
 
That was a superb partnership from Bess and Buttler - calm composed , picked the bad balls and also put away some good ball with some great shots , would be delighted to see them go on and prove a few wrong
 
Well that resistance failed to continue this morning.

Bayliss looking even more out of depth in test cricket. Claims no-one else is pushing for selection despite the likes of Gubbins, Hildreth, Foakes and Pope making decent country runs.

Beginning to look like the Ireland test was an ideal warm-up for Pakistan. Could be the destination of choice for many touring teams in the future if the usual warm-up games against the counties continue down the road of being pointless processions against largely second XI's.
 
How long can Bayliss keep his job. We're simply going backwards and we aren't good enough. Time to give some of the talented youngsters on the county scene a chance, for a number of games and not simply putting them in for one or two and then discarding them again. The coaching staff don't seem up to it and don't seem to be getting the most from the players. They themselves are under performing in the most part, and are far too inconsistent
 
I feel for Root. England should have just left him to be one of the best batsmen in the world. He looked forlorn at the interview and just churned out media trained crappy answers......we need to show character etc etc.

Gubbins for Stoneman for the next test (he should have played in this one, esp at his home ground).

People also forget get how often Moeen dug us out of the mire last Summer against SA. Granted he had a poor winter and we need a frontline spinner. We need to learn how to play test cricket and value our wicket when we bat.
 
What did I say about a shortage of options for the selectors?

Drop Stoneman to bring back Jennings who, himself, had been replaced by........
Stoneman.

Agreed Jennings has done well this season for Lancashire but it does highlight the lack of Test quality players coming through.

As for Hildreth I agree that he should probably have been given a chance in the past but as he is now 33 I think that it's too late for him.
 
MetalMickie said:
What did I say about a shortage of options for the selectors?

Drop Stoneman to bring back Jennings who, himself, had been replaced by........
Stoneman.

Agreed Jennings has done well this season for Lancashire but it does highlight the lack of Test quality players coming through.

As for Hildreth I agree that he should probably have been given a chance in the past but as he is now 33 I think that it's too late for him.
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Gubbins or Rory Burns would be viable alternatives.

I dont see what the issue is with Hildreth being 33. England need some middle-order stability and he could fit the bill for the next couple of years.
 
Tongo said:
Gubbins or Rory Burns would be viable alternatives.

I dont see what the issue is with Hildreth being 33. England need some middle-order stability and he could fit the bill for the next couple of years.
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I agree as a short-middle term solution Hildreth could fit the bill, but is now not the time to start looking to build a new and settled squad. Many are getting on a bit and no-one is really in good nick. Root reminds me of Gower or Botham when they were captained and are shackled by the responsibility to the detriment of his own food
 
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