Eng v S.A. Test Series

That was rubbish from England.

Don't have a problem with Cook at the moment. Good pair of hands and slip and has the experience to bat long.

Jennings is worth persevering for the rest of the series, with hopefully that he can address his technical issues of staying back and hanging his bat. Mind you, his county record is rubbish this season, just as bad a Hameed's.

Ballance is no different to the Ballance that first appeared and hasn't changed one iota. County cricket record is great, but this is international level. Found desperately wanting and should be on the first coach out of here. Replace him with Stoneman is my view, but Malan is a good shout.

Root. Come in at three.

Stokes, Ali, Bairstow - talented enough to win games, but want to see some more dig-in attitude. Gave their wickets away.

Wood - doesn't look properly fit. Should be whizzing it in at 90mph+.

Dawson - don't get it at all. Replace with Rashid or Crane.

Broad/Anderson - did OK but second innings were poor. Too short and as Philander shows, hitting the stumps and length is key.
 
Last edited:
Junior said:
What happened to digging in ? Caught on the boundary, stumped dancing down the wicket etc etc. Fair play to South Africa but lack of application by England helped. I don't buy into this 'its the way they play' BS. We have hardly passed 300 in recent times and that's 6 losses in 8 matches. We need to bounce back with a bit of determination. It's ok being positive, but play yourself in first !!! Credit where its due, Amla, Elgar, Faf & Philander were superb in this match.
Click to expand...

T20s did
 
Just seen a stat from Michael Vaughan on Twitter that England batted for a total of 96.1 overs in this test. You aren't going to win many games if you only manage to bat for a little over one day.
 
Still think Cook should be captain - Root wanted Ballance and Dawson added and both were a waste of space , poor reviews as well - can see Root having a bit of a mare as Captain
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Still think Cook should be captain - Root wanted Ballance and Dawson added and both were a waste of space , poor reviews as well - can see Root having a bit of a mare as Captain
Click to expand...

Hardly fair assumption two games into his tenancy. 78 in the first innings. Four catches in the match. There are issues at the top of the order but he's not solely to blame for the side selected. He can only give his view and leave it to the selectors
 
Whats happened to england cricket is that previously in our test side the top 5 averaged 40+ for their careers. Cook, Strauss, Trott, Bell, Pietersen and even Prior. That was only 5 years ago. Looking back 4 years ago if you swap Strauss for Root its the same.

Now look at the side, yes you still have Root and Cook but The other members of the Top 6? Jennings averages about 28 in his 4 tests, Balance averages 30 odd but is one of the worst technically ive seen for a while at test level. Bairstow just about averages 40 but isnt half the test player Prior was and stokes is a one day batsmen pretending to be a test player.

We just dont have a good enough batting line up at the moment and it feels like we have no depth in county cricket either because the standard is awful, quantified by Ballance averaging a ton but cant even move away from the crease in test cricket.
 
Jates12 said:
Whats happened to england cricket is that previously in our test side the top 5 averaged 40+ for their careers. Cook, Strauss, Trott, Bell, Pietersen and even Prior. That was only 5 years ago. Looking back 4 years ago if you swap Strauss for Root its the same.

Now look at the side, yes you still have Root and Cook but The other members of the Top 6? Jennings averages about 28 in his 4 tests, Balance averages 30 odd but is one of the worst technically ive seen for a while at test level. Bairstow just about averages 40 but isnt half the test player Prior was and stokes is a one day batsmen pretending to be a test player.

We just dont have a good enough batting line up at the moment and it feels like we have no depth in county cricket either because the standard is awful, quantified by Ballance averaging a ton but cant even move away from the crease in test cricket.
Click to expand...

whether you like it or not crickets changed greatly and to the detriment of many skills that would have been considered fundamental to succeeding in test match cricket.

for the players the big bucks is in the shortest not longest form of the game and hence that is where the majority are focussing their time on improving, working on skills that give them a broader range of ways of scoring in different situations, not in tightening a defensive technique to survive in test match scenarios

that said, judging someone after 4 tests a bit early to using an average, plenty who averaged 45+ over long careers didnt average 30 after 4 games!

as for prior being better than bairstow, after 40 games bairstow has scored 400 more runs than prior had at that stage at a similar average, give me the ginger over the cheese any day of the week!
 
fundy said:
that said, judging someone after 4 tests a bit early to using an average, plenty who averaged 45+ over long careers didnt average 30 after 4 games!
Click to expand...

Agree with this. Graham Gooch's first 4 test scores were 0, 0, 6 and 31, but he went on to do OK for England.
 
fundy said:
whether you like it or not crickets changed greatly and to the detriment of many skills that would have been considered fundamental to succeeding in test match cricket.

for the players the big bucks is in the shortest not longest form of the game and hence that is where the majority are focussing their time on improving, working on skills that give them a broader range of ways of scoring in different situations, not in tightening a defensive technique to survive in test match scenarios

that said, judging someone after 4 tests a bit early to using an average, plenty who averaged 45+ over long careers didnt average 30 after 4 games!

as for prior being better than bairstow, after 40 games bairstow has scored 400 more runs than prior had at that stage at a similar average, give me the ginger over the cheese any day of the week!
Click to expand...

Prior was also a far better gloveman as well. Hasty with Jennings average I agree, but his technique is very suspect, you must of seen his dismissal yesterday! But on the other hand, people who are saying that Hales, Morgan and Malan should play Red Ball cricket are crazy becuase they are white ball specialists who dont have the temperament to play a test innings. So who is going to replace him at the top? Hameed? Cant even score a run at county level!

As I appreciate the game has changed, I think Michael Vaughan was correct, England players do not respect the 5 day game any more and its sad to see. Its disappointing to think that only 2 of our Batsmen could hang around to try and build an innings.
 
Jates12 said:
Prior was also a far better gloveman as well. Hasty with Jennings average I agree, but his technique is very suspect, you must of seen his dismissal yesterday! But on the other hand, people who are saying that Hales, Morgan and Malan should play Red Ball cricket are crazy becuase they are white ball specialists who dont have the temperament to play a test innings. So who is going to replace him at the top? Hameed? Cant even score a run at county level!

As I appreciate the game has changed, I think Michael Vaughan was correct, England players do not respect the 5 day game any more and its sad to see. Its disappointing to think that only 2 of our Batsmen could hang around to try and build an innings.
Click to expand...

Prior wasn't that great behind the sticks. The last dedicated keeper I remember was Chris Read (correct me if I'm wrong!). The rest, including Alec S, were batsman first and gloveman second.

I can't argue that we have talented hitters, but very few test players. Most of those mentioned next in line are biffers, with maybe the exception of Stoneman.
 
Piece said:
Prior wasn't that great behind the sticks. The last dedicated keeper I remember was Chris Read (correct me if I'm wrong!). The rest, including Alec S, were batsman first and gloveman second.

I can't argue that we have talented hitters, but very few test players. Most of those mentioned next in line are biffers, with maybe the exception of Stoneman.
Click to expand...

Prior wasnt fantastic in fairness but i dont think JB is great! You look at the likes of De Kock He is mustard behind the sticks and a great bat! We have great hitters, thats why we are second in the world at T20, but because of that focus and pushing that towards kids getting involved, Test performance has slipped and its frustrating for the lovers of the pure form of the game like myself.
 
Jates12 said:
Whats happened to england cricket is that previously in our test side the top 5 averaged 40+ for their careers. Cook, Strauss, Trott, Bell, Pietersen and even Prior. That was only 5 years ago. Looking back 4 years ago if you swap Strauss for Root its the same.

Now look at the side, yes you still have Root and Cook but The other members of the Top 6? Jennings averages about 28 in his 4 tests, Balance averages 30 odd but is one of the worst technically ive seen for a while at test level. Bairstow just about averages 40 but isnt half the test player Prior was and stokes is a one day batsmen pretending to be a test player.

We just dont have a good enough batting line up at the moment and it feels like we have no depth in county cricket either because the standard is awful, quantified by Ballance averaging a ton but cant even move away from the crease in test cricket.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure having poor technique is the main obstacle for Balance, just look a some of the SA batsmen. Elgar who makes Grahame Smith seem classical more crab like than a crab and Amla always looks to me like he is batting with his shoe laces tied together. But both get away with it and score runs, they have learn to make the best of there shortcomings. Balance is now what, on is 3rd/4th recall and has been found out and hasn't been able to find a way to overcome his lack of foot movement .
 
patricks148 said:
I'm not sure having poor technique is the main obstacle for Balance, just look a some of the SA batsmen. Elgar who makes Grahame Smith seem classical more crab like than a crab and Amla always looks to me like he is batting with his shoe laces tied together. But both get away with it and score runs, they have learn to make the best of there shortcomings. Balance is now what, on is 3rd/4th recall and has been found out and hasn't been able to find a way to overcome his lack of foot movement .
Click to expand...

Amla averages 50 in Tests and ODIs with 51 Tons combined. I dont think you can say he has bad tekkers.

Also, Graeme Smith one was one of the best opening bats in the last 20 years, scored nearly 10000 test runs and scored 27 tons, you cant be slating his tekkers too.
 
Last edited:
Jates12 said:
Amla averages 50 in Tests and ODIs with 51 Tons combined. I dont think you can say he has bad tekkers.

Also, Graeme Smith one was one of the best opening bats in the last 20 years, scored nearly 10000 test runs and scored 27 tons, you cant be slating his tekkers too.
Click to expand...

Yes thats my point. All have whats looks like a poor techniques, but both have outstanding records. if you were an international bowlers and saw those 3 on TV you would think no problem get them out.
 
Jates12 said:
Prior wasnt fantastic in fairness but i dont think JB is great! You look at the likes of De Kock He is mustard behind the sticks and a great bat! We have great hitters, thats why we are second in the world at T20, but because of that focus and pushing that towards kids getting involved, Test performance has slipped and its frustrating for the lovers of the pure form of the game like myself.
Click to expand...

Yeah, can't argue about De Kock.

Smith was a walking lbw candidate for the in-swinger, but when his eye was in, he was very difficult to get out.

Never thought Amla had dodgy footwork. When you're that good, it doesn't matter that much as he plays with so much time. Ballance always looks hurried.
 
Piece said:
Prior wasn't that great behind the sticks. The last dedicated keeper I remember was Chris Read (correct me if I'm wrong!). The rest, including Alec S, were batsman first and gloveman second.

I can't argue that we have talented hitters, but very few test players. Most of those mentioned next in line are biffers, with maybe the exception of Stoneman.
Click to expand...

Prior was very poor as a keeper early in his career, but as he grew as a Test player his keeping really improved and he became a more than serviceable keeper. He was no James Foster (arguably the best keeper of his generation, saw him at Chelmsford standing up to Graham Napier which is just absolutely nuts) or Chris Read, but he did become a really good Test-quality keeper. Did help that his batting was superb as well though.

I miss the days of Prior in the Test side, we had such a good team back then. Strauss, KP, Bell, Flintoff, Prior, Swann, Sidebottom, plus the lads like Cook, Jimmy and Broad who are still playing, what a side.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top