Drugs, Athletics and Lord Coe

Liverpoolphil said:
So what type of Performance Enhancing Drugs can be used to help golfers ?

Beefing up as you say isnt always the answer to a quicker swing speed.

Maybe its right to believe people are innocent until proven guilty and the commissioner is right - there is no evidence of performance enhancing drugs being used.
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Innocent until proved guilty is fine as long as there is a process in place to find and weed out the guilty ones. If you are not going to do any thorough testing for drugs then of course you will not find anyone or any evidence of it. Drug cheats are not stupid, they know when and how to do it as to minimise the chances of getting caught.

It is a fact that power is a major part of the modern game, especially in the US where a lot of courses favour the bomber who can get the drives out there 300 odd yards leaving a pitch and splat shot onto the green. And there are no doubt a multitude of drugs that can help you enhance your muscle mass or allow you to train for longer so you can build up the muscles. I totally agree that beefing up is not always the answer, but on the other hand it is something that the modern pros all do to some extent. Most of them are cut like freakin steaks to coin a phrase.
 
Imurg said:
Unfortunately you now have to cast an element of doubt over all Athletics championships since the day performance enhancing drugs came into being.
I'm sure the majority are clean but now you just don't know.

As for Golf, I'm struggling to see how PED are going to help.
There are 2 very different "modes" in golf - the Power mode, where you want ultimate power for distance, and the Feel mode, where you have a delicate chip or tricky putt.
A drug that enhances one mode will be detrimental to the other. Beta blockers won't allow that explosion of power to make the 300 yard carry, steroids, or whatever, won't allow the calmness needed for a flopshot over a bunker to a downhill sloping green running out to a lake...
It wouldn't surprise me if some do use them but I doubt its widespread enough to be an issue.
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No it will not and the 2 modes are not mutually exclusive, so being good at one does not mean you can't do the other. A drug to help you with more muscle mass or to help you to train for longer without getting tired so you get more power will not automatically cause you to be off your tits so much that you can't execute a flop shot.
 
Hacker Khan said:
Innocent until proved guilty is fine as long as there is a process in place to find and weed out the guilty ones. If you are not going to do any thorough testing for drugs then of course you will not find anyone or any evidence of it. Drug cheats are not stupid, they know when and how to do it as to minimise the chances of getting caught.

It is a fact that power is a major part of the modern game, especially in the US where a lot of courses favour the bomber who can get the drives out there 300 odd yards leaving a pitch and splat shot onto the green. And there are no doubt a multitude of drugs that can help you enhance your muscle mass or allow you to train for longer so you can build up the muscles. I totally agree that beefing up is not always the answer, but on the other hand it is something that the modern pros all do to some extent. Most of them are cut like freakin steaks to coin a phrase.
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Its also a fact that after hitting the ball powerfully you then need a delicate touch and feel - not sure what drugs can be used for that

Look at the longest hitters - they arent big muscle bound lumps - they are toned but they get their distance from quick arms and timing -their distance comes from technique and ability

Modern Pros do weights yes - but its a small percentage of their work outs.

It is sad that there is suspicion already being labelled towards golfers despite no evidence to suggest there is people using PED
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Its also a fact that after hitting the ball powerfully you then need a delicate touch and feel - not sure what drugs can be used for that

Look at the longest hitters - they arent big muscle bound lumps - they are toned but they get their distance from quick arms and timing -their distance comes from technique and ability

Modern Pros do weights yes - but its a small percentage of their work outs.

It is sad that there is suspicion already being labelled towards golfers despite no evidence to suggest there is people using PED
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I'm not saying there is one wonder drug that will help you with all areas of the game. But to use that as a reason why golfers would never dope/cheat/take drugs to help them is again IMHO very naive in todays sporting landscape.

All sportspeople, no matter what they play, should be tested properly to ensure they are not taking substances that will artificially help them gain an unfair advantage in that particular sport. If in some peoples minds that equates to them being 'under suspicion' then so be it. But the fact of the matter is that some sportspeople cheat as the rewards at the top of the sport are so high now, and there is no reason why golfers should be any different. Thorough testing to me it means I can hopefully believe (most of) what I see on the sports field. As once you can't believe what you are seeing then it no longer is a sport in my mind.

Golf has got better at this and they have reluctantly been forced to do it more thoroughly, especially with the inclusion in the Olympics. But it seems it is still not great http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/12458833/john-daly-calls-pga-tour-drug-testing-big-joke

Also as the saying goes, if you are innocent then you have nothing to fear...
 
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Hacker Khan said:
I'm not saying there is one wonder drug that will help you with all areas of the game. But to use that as a reason why golfers would never dope/cheat/take drugs to help them is again IMHO very naive in todays sporting landscape.

All sportspeople, no matter what they play, should be tested properly to ensure they are not taking substances that will artificially help them gain an unfair advantage in that particular sport. If in some peoples minds that equates to them being 'under suspicion' then so be it. But to me it means that I can hopefully believe what I see on the sports field. As once you can't believe what you are seeing then it no longer is a sport in my mind.

Golf has got better at this and they have reluctantly been forced to do it more thoroughly, especially with the inclusion in the Olympics. But it seems it is still not great http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/12458833/john-daly-calls-pga-tour-drug-testing-big-joke

Also as the saying goes, if you are innocent then you have nothing to fear...
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And has there been a point in golf when looking at players there has been any suspicion ? Not for me

Unless you have seen something or point to a player who is doing things that PED would help ?

Recreational drugs - yes. Performance Enhancing ? - Nah not for - naive and trusting maybe but so far no evidence to change that thinking
 
Liverpoolphil said:
And has there been a point in golf when looking at players there has been any suspicion ? Not for me

Unless you have seen something or point to a player who is doing things that PED would help ?

Recreational drugs - yes. Performance Enhancing ? - Nah not for - naive and trusting maybe but so far no evidence to change that thinking
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I kind of think that you should base a drug testing program on a little more than some random assumption that they don't take drugs by looking at them. You should not have a drug testing program just to weed out the cheats, but they should there to stop anyone thinking of using them as well. It should be proactive, not reactive. You would kind of think that sport would have learnt that by now. Some sports are clean because participants know that they will more than likely get caught which to me is the right way to go.

By your logic do you have a list of sports that should not have thorough drug testing and some that should? Is it the case that a sport should only have a thorough drug testing program if there has been widespread evidence of drug cheats in the past? Even though if there is not a thorough testing process in place then it is virtually impossible to catch them.

I am not saying that drug cheats are endemic in golf as I do not think it is. But in answer to the OPs question then no I do not think the game is completely clean. And that is down to the head in the sand attitude of the governing bodies plus the advantage modern golfers can gain through added body strength.
 
And I believe it is clean because I believe it's a sport where the competitor will not gain anything from PED

It appears that you are a more suspicious character than me in regards a lack of trust towards people

Golfers IMO are not the type to go down the route of PED because it's a sport based on technique and I don't believe there is a PED to improve technique

Sports based on power ( athletics , cycling etc ) you can see why they would find a way to get that extra .5 of a sec - that isn't applicable in golf

Golfers get drug tested - who regualry I don't know but unless I have missed something I haven't heard the call for extra drug testing
 
There must be a lot of coke taken. I know if I was earning millions on the tour I would be spending a large portion of it on coke and hookers. They're all just so god damn expensive these days.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
And I believe it is clean because I believe it's a sport where the competitor will not gain anything from PED

It appears that you are a more suspicious character than me in regards a lack of trust towards people

Golfers IMO are not the type to go down the route of PED because it's a sport based on technique and I don't believe there is a PED to improve technique

Sports based on power ( athletics , cycling etc ) you can see why they would find a way to get that extra .5 of a sec - that isn't applicable in golf

Golfers get drug tested - who regualry I don't know but unless I have missed something I haven't heard the call for extra drug testing
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I'd love to trust all sportspeople not to cheat or use performance enhancing drugs in this quaint old world of etiquette and sportsmanship. But bitter experience has kind of taught me otherwise.

You seem to be equating performance enhancing drugs with increased speed. And saying a person playing a sport where you need technique to make contact with a ball will not benefit from performance enhancing drugs. So what about baseball then? A sport in which performance enhancing drugs were rife. A sport that requires a lot of skill and technique to hit the ball, coupled with power to make the ball go further once you make contact. Any similarities there?

And as for who is/was calling for extra drug testing then that is the IOC, who insisted on it if golf will be allowed to be in the Olympics. And I think they possibly know a thing or two about drugs in sport.
 
woody69 said:
There must be a lot of coke taken. I know if I was earning millions on the tour I would be spending a large portion of it on coke and hookers. They're all just so god damn expensive these days.
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Sorry but if was earning millions and had that much Coke I would be wazzing up every 2nd tree and a round would take me 6 hours. Plus 60p a can is not that expensive.
Re the hookers, I would need PED to get me strength back for the golf.
 
As long as there are huge financial rewards in the game I sadly cannot believe the game is totally clean. Too many incentives for minor players to try the options and a poor testing process means it should almost certainly be happening - virtually impossible to find out how deep the malaise goes however.

Interesting piece here http://www.golfdigest.com/story/adderall-use
 
If you already had a great feel around the greens, would a bit more power not help the long game? It certainly helps when escaping the rough.

If there is no need to be ripped, how come so many of the pros are bothering to bulk up? Just to look good in the showers? I think not.

Tiger, for one, is a beast.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
And I believe it is clean because I believe it's a sport where the competitor will not gain anything from PED

It appears that you are a more suspicious character than me in regards a lack of trust towards people

Golfers IMO are not the type to go down the route of PED because it's a sport based on technique and I don't believe there is a PED to improve technique

Sports based on power ( athletics , cycling etc ) you can see why they would find a way to get that extra .5 of a sec - that isn't applicable in golf

Golfers get drug tested - who regualry I don't know but unless I have missed something I haven't heard the call for extra drug testing
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Wada, the world anti doping agency, as well are calling for extra testing http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/wada-chief-says-pga-tour-drug-testing-has-gaps
 
I do worry that there is a hidden but prevalent use of drugs in golf and perhaps the sport isn't doing enough at this stage to monitor and test. No idea what the answer and golf has always thrived on the concept of it's honesty amongst players but if players are using drugs, especially on the tours, this shatters this forever
 
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