Drink Driving Limit - Should it Be reduced

[Lord Tyrion]

Why 70?

I like a nice neat number 😁. Take your pick, 65, 68, 70. I wouldn't go later than 70 for the first 're-test. No I can not back that up with a published university study following 27,000 elderly drivers, but me eyes and experience suggest that reactions and dangerous driving happens with a greater proportion of drivers at 70+ than 50+.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Not true re drink driving..


37.5k charged in EngWaland
3.7 In Scotland

The problem in Scotland is not just about drink driving, it's about heavy drinking full stop. The gov't are trying to tackle that and I applaud them for it.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I like a nice neat number 😁. Take your pick, 65, 68, 70. I wouldn't go later than 70 for the first 're-test. No I can not back that up with a published university study following 27,000 elderly drivers, but me eyes and experience suggest that reactions and dangerous driving happens with a greater proportion of drivers at 70+ than 50+.

Just wondered :thup: with the rise in pension age we’ll end up with the majority still working when they get to 70.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

That's true but it doesn't mean they are all safe to drive.

The increase in pension age is a huge issue. People having to work when they may not want to. Employees having to keep people on when they are simply not up to it anymore. Younger workers blocked from progressing upwards. Easy for politicians to increase it when they are not affected.

 

[Fish]

My neighbour will say in his late 50s. Was at his partners house for dinner 5 streets away. Had his car with him and swears he had 2 glasses if wine. Drove home about 2 am. Got stopped and done lost his license. Only stopped him cos it was a big flash dear car incase it had been stolen. That for me made me think about the 1 or two drinks i may have. Never again

The barometer isn’t 2 glasses of anything, which he found out!

A glass of wine has more [units] than a beer (ale) which is 2 units, a strong lager or cider is 3 units, so just saying I’ve had 2 glasses of anything alcoholic isn’t a good judgment call. Plus many wines are now served and pushed in larger glass sizes, 2 large glasses of wine would be the equivalent to drinking 3 pints of beer, but I’ve only had 2 glasses ossifer 😜

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Two glasses is half a bottle in many establishments.

I remember my old mum complaining of feeling tipsy when she had 'only' had two glasses.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The problem in Scotland is not just about drink driving, it's about heavy drinking full stop. The gov't are trying to tackle that and I applaud them for it.

They are doing a really good job on alcohol abuse, stopping sectarian rubbish at fitba and child protection.

It is amazing how much criticism they receive from 'certain quarters' for tackling these three problem areas.

Surprised by the GM poll so far.......The Scots were largely in favour of the alcohol move.

 

[jim8flog]

The barometer isn’t 2 glasses of anything, which he found out!

A glass of wine has more [units] than a beer (ale) which is 2 units, a strong lager or cider is 3 units, so just saying I’ve had 2 glasses of anything alcoholic isn’t a good judgment call. Plus many wines are now served and pushed in larger glass sizes, 2 large glasses of wine would be the equivalent to drinking 3 pints of beer, but I’ve only had 2 glasses ossifer 

This reminded me of going in to hospital for a pre med questionnaire- when it came to the amount of units I drank a week it made the nurse realise that the NHS unit value for wine was way off. The unit value had probably been calculated when most wines were around 8-10 proof instead of the current 12-15 proof.

 

[Hobbit]

I've voted no. The why is quite simple, for me. How many people just under the current England/Wales limit have caused an accident due to drink? The answer is no one knows. Provide evidence for a case for a change and I'm sure supporting it wouldn't be a problem.

The "it should be zero" seems such a knee jerk, emotional response. Where's the evidence to support zero being the right option? "Yes but it might save one life." Really, and the evidence is...

If we're going to go down the road, no pun intended, of looking at what things can cause problems when driving, where do we draw the line? "I've just done a 14 hour shift, therefore its illegal to drive." "I've just had a double shot mocha, and I'm wired to the moon, therefore I shouldn't drive." "I haven't eaten since breakfast, therefore I shouldn't drive."

Should we draw a line on age, and say mandatory retests? My dad drove similar miles to me, 20k to 30k, a year. In his last 5 years he scared the living daylights out of me. Many years ago our neighbour used to count 3 cars at a junction then pull out regardless.

I agree with Fish that for any conditions that might inhibit driving the doctor should inform the DVLA. However, like the drunk driver, that only sends a message that they shouldn't drive.

 

[jim8flog]

Two glasses is half a bottle in many establishments.

I remember my old mum complaining of feeling tipsy when she had 'only' had two glasses.

In a lot of places a large wine is now 250ml with just 750ml in a bottle.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The only safe and fair limit is zero.

Completely impractical and counterproductive; you'll end up picking up more "drink drivers" in morning after rush hour RTA's as you will tools who get completely hammered and who really are a danger.

The alcohol free beers available usually have 0.5% in them so I don’t think it should be absolute zero. I think this should be reflected in the limit. If you drink these options then you will blow something above zero.

Get 50 average people to drink 5 of these over 3 hours. Take a reading and use the mean reading plus 10% and make that the number.

Like the thinking.

I'm willing to bet they were all caused by people over the current limit which negates the argument that reducing the limit further will make things significantly safer. Increased detection would be a better deterrent. What's wrong with random checks outside pubs & clubs? If you're innocent you've nothing to fear. I'm certain that a number of our members drive home over the limit. A police car outside the gates would be a sobering (not literally!) reminder.

The trouble with a zero limit is how do we know when all the alcohol has left our system? What about cough medicine? A reduction may be appropriate but not zero.

The statistics are not available, I'm sure but to say "accidents are caused by people over the limit so let's reduce the limit" doesn't make sense.

Spot on.

i attend more car crashes from elderly people not being aware than drunk driving, drug driving and careless driving combined.

I can quite believe that.

Leave it as is, just police it better.

Is the correct answer. :thup:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So with the reduction in crashes and deaths as a result in alcohol in both Scotland and Sweden after they decided to reduce the level not justification to look at the drink drive limits ?

What harm would it cause to reduce to the same limit as Scotland where it’s shown to help ?

If just one single unit can impairs someone ability to drive just a touch isn’t it worth then to reduce the limit ?

Do people really need to have that second unit when they are going to drive ?

Would the world stop turning if someone didn’t have that second pint at the club

I’m certainly all for police cars outside golf clubs - wish they did it to ours because there are certain people that do drive after having more than the little.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I’m certainly all for police cars outside golf clubs - wish they did it to ours because there are certain people that do drive after having more than the little.

Why don’t you report them to your local police station?

 

[Blue in Munich]

So with the reduction in crashes and deaths as a result in alcohol in both Scotland and Sweden after they decided to reduce the level not justification to look at the drink drive limits ?

What harm would it cause to reduce to the same limit as Scotland where it’s shown to help ?

If just one single unit can impairs someone ability to drive just a touch isn’t it worth then to reduce the limit ?

Do people really need to have that second unit when they are going to drive ?

Would the world stop turning if someone didn’t have that second pint at the club

I’m certainly all for police cars outside golf clubs - wish they did it to ours because there are certain people that do drive after having more than the little.

The fatality numbers have generally been falling year on year since 2000, so how much of these reductions you claim are down to the reduced alcohol limits and how many would have happened anyway? And given the amount of time that it takes for these statistics to come through, are we yet comparing like with like? I doubt it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The fatality numbers have generally been falling year on year since 2000, so how much of these reductions you claim are down to the reduced alcohol limits and how many would have happened anyway? And given the amount of time that it takes for these statistics to come through, are we yet comparing like with like? I doubt it.

Why are you so against a drop to the same level as Scotland - what’s the negative when it’s going to reduce the risk on the road ?

 

[Khamelion]

Yes and a low a realistically possible.

Over Christmas a home made Christmas cake with a shed load of whiskey or brandy in it could put someone over if there was zero tolerance.

The simple answer is if you are going to drink then do not drive, even one 330ml bottle or a half or a shandy (for the southern lot read lager top) don't do it.

And for that matter if you've been out the night before and had a skinful don't drive the following morning, you're very likely to still be over the limit

 

[anotherdouble]

So with the reduction in crashes and deaths as a result in alcohol in both Scotland and Sweden after they decided to reduce the level not justification to look at the drink drive limits ?

What harm would it cause to reduce to the same limit as Scotland where it’s shown to help ?

If just one single unit can impairs someone ability to drive just a touch isn’t it worth then to reduce the limit ?

Do people really need to have that second unit when they are going to drive ?

Would the world stop turning if someone didn’t have that second pint at the club

I’m certainly all for police cars outside golf clubs - wish they did it to ours because there are certain people that do drive after having more than the little.

And how many times have you rang the police and reported these people

 

[Imurg]

But is it?
The level is 80 mg per 100 millilitres of blood.
You need to know how many accidents/crashes are caused by drivers in the 40-80 level.
Without that data you can't make a judgement. For all we know there could be no crashes caused by drivers in that sector...
Therefore reducing the level will have zero effect on numbers of crashes and it will become a tax raising system penalising people instead of reducing crashes.

 

[Fish]

Why are you so against a drop to the same level as Scotland - what’s the negative when it’s going to reduce the risk on the road ?

Where’s the proof that’s it’s going to reduce the risk?

When I’ve had 2 pints which I know I am under the limit with as I’ve been stopped after consuming 2 pints and blew under the limit, I drive far more consciously, I don’t speed or take any risks that I most certainly would if I hadn’t drank anything!

Those that get done or have caused accidents whilst drunk are always well over the limit, so the limit is irrelevant, it wouldn’t matter if the limit was 2, 1 or zero, those people think the law doesn’t apply to them so they will still drink & drive.

It’s a knee jerk reaction and it doesn’t or won’t have any affect on those who drink in excess of the current limits.

 

[Fish]

But is it?
The level is 80 mg per 100 millilitres of blood.
You need to know how many accidents/crashes are caused by drivers in the 40-80 level.
Without that data you can't make a judgement. For all we know there could be no crashes caused by drivers in that sector...
Therefore reducing the level will have zero effect on numbers of crashes and it will become a tax raising system penalising people instead of reducing crashes.

This 👍