Doors and windows - why?

[Oxfordcomma]

A quick rant. Why on earth do the companies selling these products insist that you absolutely have to have someone round to give you the hard sell before you can possibly have any pricing? I have just wasted 90 minutes of my life tonight listening to a patronising saleswoman, who turned up 30 minutes late and didn't either call ahead or make a proper apology. And then, having walked in quoting a ballpark figure to make sure we weren't wasting each others time, failed totally to get even within 15% of that figure and refused to offer any additional discount. Grrr.

"Oh, but there are so many combinations we can't put it on the website". Rubbish. If car manufacturers, with products costing a lot lot more, can put their high ticket prices online and allow you to configure your car, so can makers of overpriced plastic products.

And, one final bit tonight which wound me up. I got them in to talk about doors, but also asked for pricing on the roofline stuff as that needs doing. Now I live in a terraced house. £5300 list price for fascias, soffits and guttering!!!!!!!! Less than one day of work for two guys, probably £500 worth of product, and they want over 5 grand???? Oh, sorry, discounted to £3.6K so that's all right.

All of the pricing models appear to be absurd, this isn't just about one company. Yesterday's visit, a much nicer guy. Quotes £2K for a door (actually, quotes £3.5K and then knocks 1.5 off). I look at him and say I'm expecting at least 25% less than that. So he adds on a £500 window, which then qualifies the deal for a £1000 discount. And lo and behold, there's my 25%. How does that company win on that deal?

Sorry, I know not terribly relevant to a lot of people but had to have the rant. :rant:

 

[Fish]

I'll send you some details of the company & friend I work with who manufactures and installs his own windows Nationwide, I work alongside him when we get complete works for external acrylic rendering and the customers require windows & doors also, we (I) also do all the soffits, fascias & guttering.

I'll PM you all the details.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Stay well clear of the big companies,ask around to see if any of your family,friends or even people you play golf with can reccomend any one they've used.

Don't mention the quotes you've already had because they'll probably just beat that price rather than give you their best price.

 

[Smiffy]

We used Britelite for our recent kitchen windows and replacement dining room door/windows.
Found them to be very competitive and did a fantastic job.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I remember doing the initial 'tick check list' with a big company salesman 'just to keep head office happy'.

When he came to ......would you like to reduce your heating bills? I replied 'not at all, I love paying my heating bills so much that, even on the coldest day, we keep the central heating on full and open all the windows'.

He looked up at me and slowly ripped up his ' tick check list'.

Last time we have had doors and windows done we used small local independent companies, both did a great job at half the price.

 

[alexbrownmp]

I'll send you some details of the company & friend I work with who manufactures and installs his own windows Nationwide, I work alongside him when we get complete works for external acrylic rendering and the customers require windows & doors also, we (I) also do all the soffits, fascias & guttering.

I'll PM you all the details.

no 'recommendation' just a campany, what could possibly go wrong

 

[Fish]

no 'recommendation' just a campany, what could possibly go wrong

I don't understand your comment?

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Having been held hostage by a double glazing salesman in the past. When we had our last ones done, we knew what we wanted in terms of style and design and size, and also had drawings with this on.

We stopped the guy in mid sales pitch and asked specific questions about the glass type etc and basically said that we didn't want the sales platter, we just wanted him to price up what we wanted, BUT we wanted his best price first time, ie no haggling, no last minute discounts.
When his best price was way higher than another quote, we told him so and he knocked 1000 off the price, he was then asked to leave as he had not given me his best price.

The next salesmen were told this story and we ended up with some decent quotes without any hassle

 

[MegaSteve]

Stay well clear of the big companies,ask around to see if any of your family,friends or even people you play golf with can reccomend any one they've used.

Don't mention the quotes you've already had because they'll probably just beat that price rather than give you their best price.

^^^This...

Firm believer in asking around before inviting anyone in my house to discuss/quote me on any building related works...

 

[c1973]

Having been held hostage by a double glazing salesman in the past. When we had our last ones done, we knew what we wanted in terms of style and design and size, and also had drawings with this on.

We stopped the guy in mid sales pitch and asked specific questions about the glass type etc and basically said that we didn't want the sales platter, we just wanted him to price up what we wanted, BUT we wanted his best price first time, ie no haggling, no last minute discounts.
When his best price was way higher than another quote, we told him so and he knocked 1000 off the price, he was then asked to leave as he had not given me his best price.

The next salesmen were told this story and we ended up with some decent quotes without any hassle

Pretty much sums up the way I go about obtaining quotes when I need something done. It tends to work.

 

[Beezerk]

Stay well clear of the big companies,

I wouldn't say this is particularly true in the windows business, yes they'll have hard sell sales people but the product they offer will probably be better than the small outfit can knock out...

The small firm will buy from the large company if they don't make their own windows in house anyway.

The machinery which makes the windows at the smaller firms is usually not very well looked after and is uaually from the dark ages, most are not fully automated and still do things by hand which opens up all kinds of other problems (quality of operator, is it a Monday morning and he's still half baked from the weekend etc).

The larger companies will have all singing, all dancing CNC machinery which work to within 0.1mm, the smaller firms will be working to half a house brick, again depending on how good the operator/foreman is. Believe me mate, some firms will knock out any old tripe and call it a window!

I'm not saying totally discount the small firms, they're all much of a muchness really, you get good and bad ones whatever the size they are. Only true way is like mentioned before, go on a recommendation, it's ok getting a good quality window but then you get a bunch of cowboys to fit them, completely negates the quality product you've bought.#

I'd be looking at what profile they use, avoid ones which use Linear, Eurocell, Spectus as it is awful quality, Veka, Synseal, Kommerling are excellent and very robust. There's a lot more but I can't think at the minute

Btw, I work for a UK cnc machinery manufacturer who supply machines solely for the window industry :thup:

Let me know what area you're in (Oxford maybe lol) and I'll ask around. Say you live in Scotland I'd be telling you to go to Precision Windows near Motherwell, great little set up who make top notch doors and windows.

 

[alexbrownmp]

I wouldn't say this is particularly true in the windows business, yes they'll have hard sell sales people but the product they offer will probably be better than the small outfit can knock out...

The small firm will buy from the large company if they don't make their own windows in house anyway.

The machinery which makes the windows at the smaller firms is usually not very well looked after and is uaually from the dark ages, most are not fully automated and still do things by hand which opens up all kinds of other problems (quality of operator, is it a Monday morning and he's still half baked from the weekend etc).

The larger companies will have all singing, all dancing CNC machinery which work to within 0.1mm, the smaller firms will be working to half a house brick, again depending on how good the operator/foreman is. Believe me mate, some firms will knock out any old tripe and call it a window!

I'm not saying totally discount the small firms, they're all much of a muchness really, you get good and bad ones whatever the size they are. Only true way is like mentioned before, go on a recommendation, it's ok getting a good quality window but then you get a bunch of cowboys to fit them, completely negates the quality product you've bought.#

I'd be looking at what profile they use, avoid ones which use Linear, Eurocell, Spectus as it is awful quality, Veka, Synseal, Kommerling are excellent and very robust. There's a lot more but I can't think at the minute

Btw, I work for a UK cnc machinery manufacturer who supply machines solely for the window industry :thup:

Let me know what area you're in (Oxford maybe lol) and I'll ask around. Say you live in Scotland I'd be telling you to go to Precision Windows near Motherwell, great little set up who make top notch doors and windows.

I think thats a fair summation of the small companies. I think many forget, or dont know that most small outfits will buy from a large company apart from the small one off windows/doors that dont fit into a large co's production runs- as its not economical enough.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Y

I wouldn't say this is particularly true in the windows business, yes they'll have hard sell sales people but the product they offer will probably be better than the small outfit can knock out...

The small firm will buy from the large company if they don't make their own windows in house anyway.

The machinery which makes the windows at the smaller firms is usually not very well looked after and is uaually from the dark ages, most are not fully automated and still do things by hand which opens up all kinds of other problems (quality of operator, is it a Monday morning and he's still half baked from the weekend etc).

The larger companies will have all singing, all dancing CNC machinery which work to within 0.1mm, the smaller firms will be working to half a house brick, again depending on how good the operator/foreman is. Believe me mate, some firms will knock out any old tripe and call it a window!

I'm not saying totally discount the small firms, they're all much of a muchness really, you get good and bad ones whatever the size they are. Only true way is like mentioned before, go on a recommendation, it's ok getting a good quality window but then you get a bunch of cowboys to fit them, completely negates the quality product you've bought.#

I'd be looking at what profile they use, avoid ones which use Linear, Eurocell, Spectus as it is awful quality, Veka, Synseal, Kommerling are excellent and very robust. There's a lot more but I can't think at the minute

Btw, I work for a UK cnc machinery manufacturer who supply machines solely for the window industry :thup:

Let me know what area you're in (Oxford maybe lol) and I'll ask around. Say you live in Scotland I'd be telling you to go to Precision Windows near Motherwell, great little set up who make top notch doors and windows.

Ive worked in the window buisness & in my Experience the the smaller independent companies certainly produced the better standard of product.
I worked for probably the biggest name in the buisness (I'll not name them) & they were all about numbers rather than quality.

For that reason I'd certainly go to a recommended smaller company.

 

[Oxfordcomma]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone, I really just wanted to unload and rant because I was so cross with this salesperson yesterday but there's some very useful stuff in there. Fish and Beezerk, yes please, if you can PM me the stuff that you mentioned that would be great (Beezerk, good guess on the location, I'm in south Oxfordshire). I did sign one of the deals in the end (not yesterdays!) but there's a 7-day cancellation so it isn't set in stone.

Incidentally, the lady yesterday who insisted she couldn't get anywhere near my target price or indeed her own first estimate? She phoned this morning while I was playing golf. I had to pick up as I'm officially on call, wish I hadn't. It turns out that this morning she just happened to be in my town, who would have guessed eh? And she had spoken to her boss, and was able to offer me an additional £530 off!!! As Fragger and others said, I'm just not doing business with a company that behaves like that.

 

[Beezerk]

I worked for probably the biggest name in the buisness (I'll not name them) & they were all about numbers rather than quality.

True mate, the big boys are all about knocking them out as fast as they can. I'll not guess

 

[JustOne]

We used Britelite for our recent kitchen windows and replacement dining room door/windows.
Found them to be very competitive and did a fantastic job.

What exactly did you get and how much was it? :thup:

 

[Smiffy]

What exactly did you get and how much was it? :thup:

Three new large triple glazed kitchen windows and door and triple glazed patio door with surrounding bay windows.
I think about £3,600 altogether.

 

[Fish]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone, Fish and Beezerk, yes please, if you can PM me the stuff that you mentioned that would be great

PM sent :thup:

 

[vkurup]

Very timely thread.. We r about to embark on changing all the doors n Windows.. so will be shopping around.

We visited a Proprty show a few weeks ago, so are being chased by all the big boys.. again I gave one of them a high level spec of what we are looking for and she insisted that we book an appointment and they will come over!!!

Was talking to my builder and he says he gets all his doors n Windows from a small manufacturing co and have used them on most of their projects. So we will reach out to him soon.

Fish, Ocomma.. Can you PM me your Windows guy...

 

[vkurup]

BTW, is there any benefit in having leaded Windows ... Some of the houses around us have them while others don't.. forum view?