Do we really need 14 clubs?

[richart]

I'm just about to list one on For sale/wanted it's in with the pro being re gripped!

Your need is probably greater than mine Chris.

 

[USER1999]

Eh ?

Not a shot maker, and a prime example of a golfer who plays by the numbers. No flair, no style, just boringly efficient, and tedious telly.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not a shot maker, and a prime example of a golfer who plays by the numbers. No flair, no style, just boringly efficient, and tedious telly.

Yet isn't a long hitter ( which you wanted to curb also ) and still manages to win

Many other players have flair etc but don't win - for a professional golfer the main aim is to win as opposed to thrill someone watching him on telly

And can't remember this exact tournament but his recent play off victory after hitting the water was very exciting and far from boring or dull.

 

[drdel]

The venom in some of the replies makes me wonder if it is the messenger rather than the message that people object to.

I constantly read on here that clubs and the authorities must make changes for the future of the game but when someone suggests a change that might separate forumers from their favoured 14 then conservatism rules OK!

Yep I'm surprised by how a simple question can generate such heat. There must be some uptight golfers out there !!

Surely because 14 is permitted the natural reaction is to stand firm and fight any change. OK but its onlya question posed for thought. Had golf evolved around just 7 permitted clubs then every man and is uncle would get uptight if increasing the allowance to 14 was suggested.

Personally I believe Delc has a point most golfers would perform about the same with fewer clubs because, in all honesty, most Club golfers aren't that accurate anyway and so react to where their ball has landed rather than have the precision to plot their way around a course with specific distance for each of the 14 clubs.

Some of you guys need to relax - its Christmas.

 

[delc]

Sorry Delc but another thread wanting to change the fabric of golf as we know it and the way it's been for years. Over 2014 you've wanted bigger holes, rule changes etc and this is the latest crackpot idea. If you're happy with less than 14 club then crack on. Maybe you could have 6 clubs and 8 putters and see if it helps the putting stats and those yips!

Perhaps you would like to bring back stymies, gutty balls and plus four trousers Homer! They are, or rather were, all part of the tradition of golf, but it has fortunately moved on. I can't think of any other ball and stick games where you (allegedly) need so many implements to play it. Hockey only one stick, croquet only one stick, cricket only one bat, snooker only one cue. And the young Seve could play pretty good golf with only a cut down 3 iron! All I am suggesting is that you could reduce the number of implements without fundamentally changing the game. I originally learned to play the game with only 5 clubs (1 wood, 3 irons and a putter) and as a result I can improvise shots when required. Creative shot makers (e.g Seve) would be rewarded more than tour pros who only have one swing and use lots of different clubs to achieve different distances (e.g Zack Johnson)!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sorry Delc but you can't compare golf to any of those sports - it's uniquely different to everyone one of them - there is nothing to compare.

A young Seve had no choice to use one club - when given the chance he got a full set.

If you can improvise shots so well why do you go out with 14 clubs ?

To say having 14 clubs means their is no creative shot making is wildly off the mark - look at some of the shots Mickleson plays

 

[Foxholer]

I have long thought exactly this. The maximum size of driver should be reduced, there should be a flex test to eliminate scaffolding poles as shafts, limit the number of clubs to 10, and freeze wedges at 56 degrees.

Ok, why?

To see a return of shot making in golf. Allow the guys who have control of the ball to show us their skills, rather than watching the big hitters over power everything, or some journey man pro dial in his yard ages. Is this part of the game, yes. Is it fun to watch, no. It's dull. Your average tour event is like watching paint dry, but less interesting.

If this made golf quicker (it might, due to less being between clubs) all the better, and if it made it cheaper and more accessible, may be that's good too. When a non golfer looks at a set of golf clubs, are all these really necessary? Springs to mind. And the honest answer is no, not really.

Do I have 14 clubs in the bag? Yes, because I'm allowed to. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing.

I don't believe it would make it cheaper, nor more accessible. In fact, the need for more skill would tend to make it more expensive - more lessons, practice etc - therefore less accessible. Likewise, anything that requires a return to shot-making, while laudable, will also tend to make the game more expensive and less accessible! Basically, you can't have it both ways!

The current limits seem quite reasonable to me! As someone posted earlier, there wasn't a limit a while ago and all manner of clubs were included in some bags - up to 25,30 or more!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Sorry Delc but you can't compare golf to any of those sports - it's uniquely different to everyone one of them - there is nothing to compare.

A young Seve had no choice to use one club - when given the chance he got a full set.

If you can improvise shots so well why do you go out with 14 clubs ?

To say having 14 clubs means their is no creative shot making is wildly off the mark - look at some of the shots Mickleson plays

But often did not have 14 in the bag and never had a wedge with more than 55 deg loft.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But often did not have 14 in the bag and never had a wedge with more than 55 deg loft.

And that was his choice :thup:

If others think having 14 clubs is dull etc etc then don't have 14 clubs - everyone has a choice for the amount of clubs they carry and what clubs they carry.

 

[garyinderry]

http://www.golfwrx.com/260429/how-to-legally-carry-more-than-70-clubs-in-your-bag/

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Everyone has a choice. Maybe the game is easier with less for some. Not for me and I want the right stick for the right shot at the right time. After that, if I mess it's simply my fault. You could argue it's the same with fewer clubs but when your having to add or take loft to get distances or move the ball more often, you're adding variables which make it harder to control, certainly for a player of my ability

 

[Evesdad]

I'm currently only using 10 and have noticed any gaps. Dropped the 5w and gap wedge. Currently scoring my best ever scores.

Sw/pw/5-9irons/hybrid/driver and putter.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm currently only using 10 and have noticed any gaps. Dropped the 5w and gap wedge. Currently scoring my best ever scores.

Sw/pw/5-9irons/hybrid/driver and putter.

As I say, for some it might work. For me it's a no brainer and I want (need) all of the sticks. Glad you're playing so well and at least you've got options to make changes should you wish to do so

 

[BTatHome]

Choices ....

I don't mind seeing a full set, or a half, and yes it does make for more interesting shots, but to be honest I think the only thing I object to is being told that playing with 14 is somehow wrong, that it should be changed, that I would be considered incompetent if I couldn't score better with less, forcing me to change my wedges just because someone decided that 56 should be a maximum.

The idea of changing driver flex to limit people getting better is a strange too, why should someone that has worked very hard on his swing get limited in such a way?

Anyway I'm all for everyone taking only 6/8 clubs out, but don't try and make believe it'll help the game. Companies will still sell a complete range, or are we also talking about limiting the lofts can be sold too? Individual irons will cost £150 each (and if your only taking 4 irons then the costs will be comparable anyway).

With regard to getting at delc, I think it usually starts when a suggestion to change the rules occurs. a simple suggestion of whether many people improve with less clubs would be fine, but it quickly moves to changing the rules again.

delc, why do you not use less clubs all year? Surely if you are already creative, and can improvise, and it works to improve your game then it's a good thing to have all year round, not just over winter?

 

[USER1999]

My argument on shaft flex is to do with limiting distance off the tee. Back in the day, Ted Ray could bomb it 300 yards with hickory shafts. Not many could. It was a skill. Hickory wasn't x flex.

Now, plenty can. Amateurs too. Loads can bomb it. Have a rapid, but wayward swing? Tame it by going x, xx, xxx? Ted Ray had to time it. It was skill, plus power. Awesome to behold, I'd guess. A one off. Like Bubba.

Watching xyz tour pro, with an identikit coached swing doesn't do it for me.

Yep, they aren't there to entertain me, but actually they are. It's an entertainment based industry. I stop watching, advertising falls, prizes drop, every one ends up playing for peanuts.

Winning needs to be more rewarded, more difficult, more entertaining. The journey man winner needs to be rare, make it tough, make it unforgiving, make it fun viewing. Think gladiator. As it is, most make a nice living. How dull is that?

Less clubs, more shot making, more risk/reward, make driving harder, go for it/ play safe, make golf fun to watch.

Me? I don't watch much golf on telly. It's dull. Heck I even watched some cricket in preference the other day when I was ill. That was dull too, but better than the golf on offer, and I'm a golfer.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Journeyman winner ? Who are these journeymen winners you keep referring too

I don't get this whole argument

The game is hard - bloody hard - why would anyone want to make it harder ?

Make it harder less people play it - how is that productive to the game ?

You make it sound like anyone can go on and win - when it's prob one of the hardest things to don- win a pro tournament

These guys win because they are massively talented - in the top 1% o f golfers in the world

I really can't understand the viewpoint at all.

I'm close to asking if it's April the 1st.

Your idea to make it fun to watch is watching players struggle ?!

Have to say it's the biggest load of nonsense I have read

 

[USER1999]

I just want to see a return to the likes of Seve, Greg Norman, guys who could work the ball, move it both ways, make a little magic, make it fun.

Too many of today's pros are boring. Sorry, they are. I'm surely the target audience, heck, I play golf. If I'm not watching, who is? How do they attract a new audience?

Me? I'm bored. I don't want to watch Brandon Grace win. He is a nice guy, but I couldn't pick him out in a line up. I don't recognise his swing. It's too similar to others. I want to see some flair, show some talent, escape some jungle, get out of jail, show me something I haven't seen before.

But no. It's just dull. Another pro, same swing, same build, same old same old.

I want magic. It's meant to entertain me, and it's not.

 

[USER1999]

A bit more differential between those that truly have it, and those who are very good, but one dimensional.

Personally, I don't really see a need for golf on telly every week. It's too samey.

Journey man pro, equals anyone who wins by being the best boring golfer who turns up that week. Yep, it's tough to win, and if it was me, I'd love it, but winning when the top guys aren't there is just paying the bills. You're not kidding anyone that you're any good.

It's like watching Watford play footy.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Watch Victor Dubisson , Bubba Watson , Phil Mickleson etc

Plenty of guys on tour that can have miracle escapes - plenty of golfers that can entertain

Even back when Norman and Seve were playing you had the guys who just ground out the wins - Faldo perfect example

Pros in a majority have always been boring - no different back then to now

Every time they hit the ball they show talent - to win a tournament they should massive amounts of talent - if players like Grace are journeyman pros then they have been around for decades

 

[shewy]

I completely get where your coming from murph,I've dropped sky sports because it's got so boring, I wan't to see flair and shotmaking not identakit players, only Bubba really has the shot making skills these days.
I don't know if limiting the number of clubs would do this but something needs to be done