colint
Tour Rookie
You can indeed make such deductions if they are agreed in advance, but in this case the deduction is pushing the hourly rate below minimum wage, so he's screwed either way
Dismissed from a part time job. Your views please.
- Thread starter Farneyman
- Start date
Ethan
Money List Winner
'Seems only fair' is not the legal standard, unfortunately for you.
The employer is limited in what deductions he can make, only those defined by statute (tax, NI etc) and others by the contract of employment. Other deductions are illegal, end of story, no matter what sob story the employer puts. Sacking someone who challenges an illegal deduction is going to be a loser in the Employment Tribunal. Any employer who does not know that is a fool who deserves what is coming to them.
Is it tho....I have been thinking about this and I think he is doing nothing incorrect...
It is a totally seperate deduction..he has paid the min wage and the deduction is for an item seperate expense to wages.
Farm employers for example will pay monthly hours of say 120 hrs @ min wage then deduct rent for farm cottages..
Again, I actually think that he has done nowt incorrect.
He should of though put that deductions onto something else than his staff!
It is a totally seperate deduction..he has paid the min wage and the deduction is for an item seperate expense to wages.
Farm employers for example will pay monthly hours of say 120 hrs @ min wage then deduct rent for farm cottages..
Again, I actually think that he has done nowt incorrect.
He should of though put that deductions onto something else than his staff!
Tommo21
Tour Winner
Yes, and there is very good reasons for this.........some of your views for a start.
Macster
Journeyman Pro
You're all losing track of the point here....and regardless of the issues about how/why the Boss made the deduction.
What he simply should have done is reduce all casual hours by an hour......then they would have all lost £5.80 or whatever.
However, The OP chose to make a tit of himself over £1/week, and not having the brains to think....."actually, if I kick off over this and make myself unpopular, I might lose the nice little 'pocket money to pay for my petrol' 5hr job that I have.
My daughter has had a part time job at Next whilst studying her Alevels, and now she's away at Uni, she calls them when she's back and she gets loads of shifts. Earned £300 over Christmas & New Year.
However, there have been many times when they havent acted according to how 'she'd like', making her stay late, blah blah, and if she had wanted to make a deal of it, she'd have been within her rights.
However, she wouldnt have been called in to work when she's home anymore would she ?
She doesnt 'need' the money either, but sure as hell comes in handy for her, and I still think Farneyman should have kept his gob shut and kept his job.
If the Full time staff had a an issue with £1/week being taken out of their wages, they had a slightly stronger case.
Big Gob + Big Deal = No Job + No Petrol Money.
What he simply should have done is reduce all casual hours by an hour......then they would have all lost £5.80 or whatever.
However, The OP chose to make a tit of himself over £1/week, and not having the brains to think....."actually, if I kick off over this and make myself unpopular, I might lose the nice little 'pocket money to pay for my petrol' 5hr job that I have.
My daughter has had a part time job at Next whilst studying her Alevels, and now she's away at Uni, she calls them when she's back and she gets loads of shifts. Earned £300 over Christmas & New Year.
However, there have been many times when they havent acted according to how 'she'd like', making her stay late, blah blah, and if she had wanted to make a deal of it, she'd have been within her rights.
However, she wouldnt have been called in to work when she's home anymore would she ?
She doesnt 'need' the money either, but sure as hell comes in handy for her, and I still think Farneyman should have kept his gob shut and kept his job.
If the Full time staff had a an issue with £1/week being taken out of their wages, they had a slightly stronger case.
Big Gob + Big Deal = No Job + No Petrol Money.
Farneyman
Tour Winner
How funny that you can make an assumption like that.....have you been speaking to my wife cause thats her favourite part of me, my tool!
Can I make an assumption on you then .....I take it you are a terrible business man who cant make proper decisions, wasted money, time etcetcetc.... I wont go on because I dont know you just like you dont know me.
I am not going to get in a debate with you ChricMc as I dont really give a poo what you think of me. Think what you like but Im just standing up for my right if you dont like it yawn yawn yawn.
This is nothing to do with hard done by/PC brigade just not going to stand by and get the mickey taken out of me by someone in a work situation or in general life.
ChrisMc over and out.
Everybody else thanks for the advise and support
Lots of love Farneyman the "Tool"
Totally agree with your principle here, if not your wording for it.
If the guy is bothered about keeping his job, then sometimes you have to put up or shut up.
BUT
Instead of being described as 'making a tit of himself', he could also be described as 'standing up for the rights of the abused minority'
And if you can't stand up and be counted when you are a student, when can you?
This guy might be whiter than white, in which case good luck to him. But I doubt it. Even Richard Branson has been accused of making an iffy quid before now.
Macster
Journeyman Pro
Tommo - and I'd guess you are 'employed' as well.
After many years running my own Business, closing it down and paying out over £25k in Redundancy costs was the BEST thing I ever did. Period.
Reading all of your posts has reminded me just how crap being an Employer actually is, and without hesitation, I can state that I will NEVER, ......NEVER,.........employ anyone again.
After many years running my own Business, closing it down and paying out over £25k in Redundancy costs was the BEST thing I ever did. Period.
Reading all of your posts has reminded me just how crap being an Employer actually is, and without hesitation, I can state that I will NEVER, ......NEVER,.........employ anyone again.
Well i think that this post has succeeded!!!!
After all he did ask for ''Your views please!!''
After all he did ask for ''Your views please!!''
Sneds
Tour Rookie
ChrisMC and Farneyman, I don't understand why you're resorting to derogatory remarks about one another? You're both making yourself look silly in my opinion. I appreciate that you both feel strongly about the situation, but be adults about it.
I think Dodger and ColinT show that you can have differences of opinion and discuss them without getting personal or over the top. x
I think Dodger and ColinT show that you can have differences of opinion and discuss them without getting personal or over the top. x
Tommo21
Tour Winner
Hired and fired a few over the years, but you've clearly had a bad time of it, which is fair enough. Because of that you clearly have a slant that doesn't go along with what a good employer needs to have. That is coming ever quite strong. Right, I'm away for a hit at the ball.
Farneyman
Tour Winner
Its not my intention to make degrogatory remarks and if I have it wasnt intentional. I was making an assumption with no evidence just like ChrisMc did about me with no knowledge of my background or circumstances. I was also just saying I dont care what ChrisMc thinks and still dont. Hes made a lot of remarks about how daft etc I am again yawn yawn yawn.
He called me names first
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
ChrisMc, do me a favour and paypal me £52 quid (justoneuk@gmail.com)... don't worry it's only £1 per week.
Put up or shut up.
teetime72
Head Pro
Making twelve people redundant the BEST thing you`ve ever done ?? and paid out only £25k.
I doubt anyone will want to work for you again.
colint
Tour Rookie
Is it tho....I have been thinking about this and I think he is doing nothing incorrect...
It is a totally seperate deduction..he has paid the min wage and the deduction is for an item seperate expense to wages.
Farm employers for example will pay monthly hours of say 120 hrs @ min wage then deduct rent for farm cottages..
Again, I actually think that he has done nowt incorrect.
He should of though put that deductions onto something else than his staff!
Sorry Dodger but you're wrong on this point. Agreed charges for rent / board etc deducted after pay are one thing, and these can be tested legally to see if they are fair.
Charges made to process pay, which push the pay under minimum wage are illegal. Without boring the bejesus out of you with the legislation, please just trust me on this one, I'm a chartered tax advisor and work for a payroll company, so deal with really exciting stuff like this all day .
Macster
Journeyman Pro
Whether the deduction is right or not, legal or not, the point is, Farneyman doesnt now have his 'petrol money' job.
Had he kept his head down, and let others protest or not, if they felt appropriate, he might still have it.
I'm not saying what was done is correct, or how it was done, but what I am saying is keep it in perspective and try and see things perhaps from the Boss's point of view.
At least he should have perhaps discussed it with other staff and ALL object if at all.
Teetime: None of my staff had any issues with me, in fact, some assisted in the closedown procedures, and I doubt any would have a bad word against me in reality.
BUT, from an Employers perspective, which you have no idea about unless you actually Employ, the beaurocracy and pains of toeing the correct Employment proceedures is an absolute pain in the @ss.
£25k was quite a hit, but sitting here 3yrs later, working from an office at home, and earning more than I did before with none of the overheads, it was the best thing I ever did.
Until you have the pressure of meeting a monthly Wage Bill of £10k before all your other overheads, you simply wont understand at all.
Anyway, go on Farneyman, take it all the way, try and get a payout and perhaps when it all goes under, and your ex-colleagues are all out of work and collecting dole, you'll get some real satisfaction.
Had he kept his head down, and let others protest or not, if they felt appropriate, he might still have it.
I'm not saying what was done is correct, or how it was done, but what I am saying is keep it in perspective and try and see things perhaps from the Boss's point of view.
At least he should have perhaps discussed it with other staff and ALL object if at all.
Teetime: None of my staff had any issues with me, in fact, some assisted in the closedown procedures, and I doubt any would have a bad word against me in reality.
BUT, from an Employers perspective, which you have no idea about unless you actually Employ, the beaurocracy and pains of toeing the correct Employment proceedures is an absolute pain in the @ss.
£25k was quite a hit, but sitting here 3yrs later, working from an office at home, and earning more than I did before with none of the overheads, it was the best thing I ever did.
Until you have the pressure of meeting a monthly Wage Bill of £10k before all your other overheads, you simply wont understand at all.
Anyway, go on Farneyman, take it all the way, try and get a payout and perhaps when it all goes under, and your ex-colleagues are all out of work and collecting dole, you'll get some real satisfaction.
teetime72
Head Pro
Chris.What I objected to in your post was the fact that making someone redundant was the BEST thing.It certainly wasn`t BEST for the employee,and I would have thought it could be taken as an addmission of failure on your part that you couldn`t continue providing employment, although,not knowing the circumstances I won`t comment.
Incidently,before I retired I had a successful company for 35 yrs employing 18 men,so I do have some idea of the headaches of being an employer.
Tommo21
Tour Winner
I detect a major chip on someones shoulder.
Farneyman
Tour Winner
Having looked at this thread since I started it I feel I should make a few things clear. There have been a few accusations, assumptions and general questions directed towards me and I feel I want to clear them up.
Everyone has been giving their views on this matter some agreeing some not. That is the beauty of this forum as in life not everyone is going to agree with me, this I understand.
I am going to go through the thread and answer/ give explanations to any points I feel haven’t been covered.
Firstly to answer a point raised asking isn’t the pub answerable to the brewery. My understanding is no, these pubs are owned by a businessman/family.
Second point I want to raise is the fact that the business as a whole is in no way threatened as they are all busy properties and the owner/s are extremely and I mean extremely wealthy.
The next point I want to make is the fact that when I spoke to other members of staff I said to them not to do anything because I didn’t want them to potentially lose their jobs so they could stay out of it. I on the other hand was not dependant on the job as my only source of income so was willing and able to raise my concerns to the boss/owner.
There have been some good points raised on regards to the amount of protection employees get but we only have look back in history to see how employee were treated, some of them only children. This still goes on in other parts of the world today ( and maybe in some places here) This in my opinion is great for the employees as they/we all deserve protection from getting ripped off.
The next thing I want to mention is that I have never at any stage said I am doing this for the chance of a payout. I am simply doing it to firstly get my job back, which if I get I will take, and secondly make sure, if it illegal to make these deductions, that this practise stops for all the other staff. The legality of the deductions still has me baffled that’s why I have made my complaint as I not up to speed on these issues.
I have also not at any stage “kicked off†about this. I have seeked advice from the relevant authorities and acted on their advise and if that is something to be ashamed of then so be it, that is a matter of opinion. I can in no way see how this making a “tit “ out of myself. Also to think I may get satisfaction out of causing others to lose their jobs is just daft.
I hope this clears a few things up for anyone who is reading/posting on this thread.
I certainly didn’t expect the response Ive got from this post, it reminds of what Ive missed when I haven’t been online, all this petty name calling etc. That is certainly not my thing…..
Peace and love to everybody. I will let you all know the outcome when I find out.
PS ignore any spelling/grammar mistakes....Im away for a game of subbuteo.
Everyone has been giving their views on this matter some agreeing some not. That is the beauty of this forum as in life not everyone is going to agree with me, this I understand.
I am going to go through the thread and answer/ give explanations to any points I feel haven’t been covered.
Firstly to answer a point raised asking isn’t the pub answerable to the brewery. My understanding is no, these pubs are owned by a businessman/family.
Second point I want to raise is the fact that the business as a whole is in no way threatened as they are all busy properties and the owner/s are extremely and I mean extremely wealthy.
The next point I want to make is the fact that when I spoke to other members of staff I said to them not to do anything because I didn’t want them to potentially lose their jobs so they could stay out of it. I on the other hand was not dependant on the job as my only source of income so was willing and able to raise my concerns to the boss/owner.
There have been some good points raised on regards to the amount of protection employees get but we only have look back in history to see how employee were treated, some of them only children. This still goes on in other parts of the world today ( and maybe in some places here) This in my opinion is great for the employees as they/we all deserve protection from getting ripped off.
The next thing I want to mention is that I have never at any stage said I am doing this for the chance of a payout. I am simply doing it to firstly get my job back, which if I get I will take, and secondly make sure, if it illegal to make these deductions, that this practise stops for all the other staff. The legality of the deductions still has me baffled that’s why I have made my complaint as I not up to speed on these issues.
I have also not at any stage “kicked off†about this. I have seeked advice from the relevant authorities and acted on their advise and if that is something to be ashamed of then so be it, that is a matter of opinion. I can in no way see how this making a “tit “ out of myself. Also to think I may get satisfaction out of causing others to lose their jobs is just daft.
I hope this clears a few things up for anyone who is reading/posting on this thread.
I certainly didn’t expect the response Ive got from this post, it reminds of what Ive missed when I haven’t been online, all this petty name calling etc. That is certainly not my thing…..
Peace and love to everybody. I will let you all know the outcome when I find out.
PS ignore any spelling/grammar mistakes....Im away for a game of subbuteo.
Herbie
Tour Winner
It may be a long winded process but stick with it, dont let gits get away with it, just think how many others they do it to. When you are finally successful with the legal process, go round and thump him!
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