Debate about ventilators

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Swinglowandslow

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I've just read an article in MailOnline about several Doctors concerns about the efficacy of ventilators, their bad survival rates, etc.( I'm no good at showing a link, not tech savvy enough), but apparently it's on YouTube also.
A frontline Doctor in N York thinks this disease is more like altitude sickness in that it prevents oxygen getting to the blood, and is different enough from pneumonia to warrant diff rent treatment.
Other Doctors are agreeing with him, and the strong belief is that ventilators may be making things worse.
It is a very interesting alternative view which might be extremely important. It could be one of those things where established practice may stubbornly resist change .
Hopefully, it will be looked at objectively.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
I've just read an article in MailOnline about several Doctors concerns about the efficacy of ventilators, their bad survival rates, etc.( I'm no good at showing a link, not tech savvy enough), but apparently it's on YouTube also.
A frontline Doctor in N York thinks this disease is more like altitude sickness in that it prevents oxygen getting to the blood, and is different enough from pneumonia to warrant diff rent treatment.
Other Doctors are agreeing with him, and the strong belief is that ventilators may be making things worse.
It is a very interesting alternative view which might be extremely important. It could be one of those things where established practice may stubbornly resist change .
Hopefully, it will be looked at objectively.
Click to expand...

i have a doctor in the extended family and he has said that ventilators are making some people worse. interestingly he said a third of the doctors and nurses have been taking massive doses of vitamin d, zinc and two other things that i cant remember. he said non of them have fallen ill. some of the others have
 
hovis said:
i have a doctor in the extended family and he has said that ventilators are making some people worse. interestingly he said a third of the doctors and nurses have been taking massive doses of vitamin d, zinc and two other things that i cant remember. he said non of them have fallen ill. some of the others have
Click to expand...

Any chance you could ask him please?
 
Swinglowandslow said:
I've just read an article in MailOnline about several Doctors concerns about the efficacy of ventilators, their bad survival rates, etc.( I'm no good at showing a link, not tech savvy enough), but apparently it's on YouTube also.
A frontline Doctor in N York thinks this disease is more like altitude sickness in that it prevents oxygen getting to the blood, and is different enough from pneumonia to warrant diff rent treatment.
Other Doctors are agreeing with him, and the strong belief is that ventilators may be making things worse.
It is a very interesting alternative view which might be extremely important. It could be one of those things where established practice may stubbornly resist change .
Hopefully, it will be looked at objectively.
Click to expand...

This one?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html
 
hovis said:
i have a doctor in the extended family and he has said that ventilators are making some people worse. interestingly he said a third of the doctors and nurses have been taking massive doses of vitamin d, zinc and two other things that i cant remember. he said non of them have fallen ill. some of the others have
Click to expand...
Why vitamin D I wonder? I know Vit C helps your immune system a lot but I'm unsure as to why Vit D could help
 
Altitude sickness is a weird thing. As far as I know, gradual acclimatisation is still the most normal and most effective approach taken, rather than drugs, although some are available if you have a history of suffering from the condition.
As for a cure - just go down asap.
The strange thing is that it doesn't seem particularly related to personal fitness, I've known really fit young people get it, while less fit older people haven't. I think there must be some genetic predisposition, but not sure if it has been specifically identified.
One of my mates once got it skiing in Val Thorens. Needless to say, he got a whole lot of (unfair) stick thereafter.
 
Isn't this just part of the whole social media problem of today? The constant myths/stories/falsehoods/conspiracy stories don't help anyone, other than those starting the topic as it gives them cred.
Is it any difference to the printed press we often complain about?
 
Bunkermagnet said:
Isn't this just part of the whole social media problem of today? The constant myths/stories/falsehoods/conspiracy stories don't help anyone, other than those starting the topic as it gives them cred.
Is it any difference to the printed press we often complain about?
Click to expand...

This isn't necessarily myths etc. Just read the article. If you accept that it is accredited Frontline Doctors querying this then maybe you wouldn't rush to judgment.
Perhaps you could comment after you've read the article.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
This isn't necessarily myths etc. Just read the article. If you accept that it is accredited Frontline Doctors querying this then maybe you wouldn't rush to judgment.
Perhaps you could comment after you've read the article.
Click to expand...
I dont bother reading things from the mailonline, just as I dont The Sun, Express, Mirror or Star. They are one and the same to me, so unless the publishing source is more trustworthy or official I treat them all the same.
No news is better than false news.
 
I've read a number of reports over the past week suggesting the same thing. i.e that the virus is causing oxygen depletion not pneumonia, and as a consequence, the ventilator is not the right treatment. Also a number of reports advocating the prone position to open up the airways instead of lying on their backs, which closes the airways down. The ICU consultant on the Ross Kemp documentary Thursday night said the same thing, that he'd used the prone position something like 10 times in the last 20 years, and 10 times in the last couple of weeks. The prone position is helping many patients improve and recover their oxygen levels very quickly after coming in with very low oxygen levels.
 
"The death rate for those treated on ventilators is devastating. In one British study of 98 Covid-19 patients who were put on them or on similarly invasive breathing-support equipment, two-thirds died, according to a new report by our Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre.

In New York, which has been hit particularly hard by the virus, 80 per cent of ventilated patients failed to recover. The loss of life in other countries for those on the machines is equally terrifying. "
I wonder if this is due to the fact that they are far more seriously ill than those not put on ventilators?
 
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