Couple of newbie questions

[virtuocity]

Hoping some folks can help me out with BASIC explanations of the rules to the following scenarios:

1. At my local course it states "Preferred Lies".

a) Is it a local rule as to how many times I can mark, lift, clean and place my ball on the fairway?
b) When I place it, can I do it very slowly and carefully to give me the best lie available?
c) Can I do this in the rough?

2. Plugged in the rough

-Ball is plugged an inch into the earth's core and without a JCB there's no chance of me getting it out. Can I lift, clean and place?

3. Lost ball

-I often play on my own. What happens if I can't find my ball, having walked 180 yards up the hole? Do I have to walk back to the tee? Or if I can't physically see the ball, am I better hitting a shorter provisional ball just in case?

4. V-Easy in the bag

-If it was a comp, do I have to take this training aid out of my bag before I start the round?

5. Leaves, debris etc

-Can I move stuff away from my ball as long as it doesn't move the ball?

6. Grounding the club in the rough, am I right when I say:

a) If if causes the ball to move one revolution, it is counted as a stroke
b) If if causes the ball to move and return to its starting position, no penalty



Thanks! Sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[AmandaJR]

As I'm trying to learn the rules I'm going to have a go without reference to the rules book and wait for the experts to come along!

Hoping some folks can help me out with BASIC explanations of the rules to the following scenarios:

1. At my local course it states "Preferred Lies".

a) Is it a local rule as to how many times I can mark, lift, clean and place my ball on the fairway? Preferred lies usually means you can mark, lift and clean your ball then place it within 6 inches (no nearer the pin) on close mown areas only (so basically fairway cut). No limit to how many times you can do this.
b) When I place it, can I do it very slowly and carefully to give me the best lie available? Yes but you only get once chance to replace it after each shot so if it then rolls and you don't like it then hard luck!
c) Can I do this in the rough? No. Close mown areas only (fairway, apron/fringe usually)

2. Plugged in the rough

-Ball is plugged an inch into the earth's core and without a JCB there's no chance of me getting it out. Can I lift, clean and place? You can lift, clean and DROP if ball is plugged in its own pitchmark in the rough.

3. Lost ball

-I often play on my own. What happens if I can't find my ball, having walked 180 yards up the hole? Do I have to walk back to the tee? Or if I can't physically see the ball, am I better hitting a shorter provisional ball just in case? Yes you have to retake the shot if the ball is lost. Best to take a provisional and save time...

4. V-Easy in the bag

-If it was a comp, do I have to take this training aid out of my bag before I start the round? Yes

5. Leaves, debris etc

-Can I move stuff away from my ball as long as it doesn't move the ball? Yes - be careful!

6. Grounding the club in the rough, am I right when I say:

a) If if causes the ball to move one revolution, it is counted as a stroke. If you address a ball anywhere and doing so causes it to move it is a penalty (counts as a shot) and you play it where it lies.
b) If if causes the ball to move and return to its starting position, no penalty. Hmmm think a) above applies.



Thanks! Sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[Slab]

Amanda at the risk of being corrected I’m going to call you on No6
[FONT=&quot]For a) If it moves position I understand it’s a one shot pen and reposition the ball and for b) no pen if it returns to original spot [/FONT]

and to virtuocity it doesn't have to move a complete revolution to have moved, half or less would also mean its not in its original spot

 

[AmandaJR]

Amanda at the risk of being corrected I’m going to call you on No6
[FONT="]For a) If it moves position I understand it’s a one shot pen and reposition the ball and for b) no pen if it returns to original spot [/FONT]

and to virtuocity it doesn't have to move a complete revolution to have moved, half or less would also mean its not in its original spot

Interesting - still not looking in the book (can't as it's at home!!) but you could well be right

 

[rosecott]

1. The standard approved local rule for preferred lies allows “pick and place” on close-mown areas – those which are cut to fairway height or lower.

a) With “pick and place”, you can place once only on each occasion but there is no limit on how many occasions i.e. if you are on the fairway on 3 occasions during the play of a hole, you can “pick and place” once on each of the 3 occasions.
b) As slowly as you like but once it is placed, that is it, you cannot move it again.
c) No.

2. Only if there is a specific local rule in place allowing relief “through the green” for an embedded ball – if not, you can still declare it unplayable and take a penalty drop.

3. If you are unsure if the ball will be found or not, play a provisional.

4. Carrying it in your bag is not illegal but using it is.

5. Yes

6. If the ball oscillates and returns to original position – no penalty.

 

[duncan mackie]

1. The standard approved local rule for preferred lies allows “pick and place” on close-mown areas – those which are cut to fairway height or lower.

a) With “pick and place”, you can place once only on each occasion but there is no limit on how many occasions i.e. if you are on the fairway on 3 occasions during the play of a hole, you can “pick and place” once on each of the 3 occasions.
b) As slowly as you like but once it is placed, that is it, you cannot move it again.
c) No.

2. Only if there is a specific local rule in place allowing relief “through the green” for an embedded ball – if not, you can still declare it unplayable and take a penalty drop.

3. If you are unsure if the ball will be found or not, play a provisional.

4. Carrying it in your bag is not illegal but using it is.

5. Yes

6. If the ball oscillates and returns to original position – no penalty.

I'm pretty much with these, although I would highlight that for no 5 this assumes you are not in a hazard.

Simply stating 'preferred lies' is really confusing and the definition should be on a board somewhere - we have notices stating 'winter rules' in quite a few places but the actual rules are laid out on a board by the first tee.

Playing on your own you can do what you like if you loose a ball; probably the only time I don't play a provisional! It doesn't matter.

On the ball moving discussion - if you cause it to move it gets replaced and you get penalised - and if it doesn't move you can't replace it

 

[AmandaJR]

Seems weird that you can carry a training aid so long as you don't use it but can't do the same with a GPS/phone having disabled those functions deemed illegal....

I'd have also thought the very act of causing a ball to move was a foul - whether it came back to its original spot or not.

Perhaps I'm being too logical - even for a girlie!!!

Silly old game!

 

[CMAC]

Seems weird that you can carry a training aid so long as you don't use it but can't do the same with a GPS/phone having disabled those functions deemed illegal....

you CAN carry a GPS phone like the iPhone as long as you dont use the GPS or other illegal parts, nothing stopping you making a call

 

[AmandaJR]

you CAN carry a GPS phone like the iPhone as long as you dont use the GPS or other illegal parts, nothing stopping you making a call

Sorry I meant using the GPS element but not the other features such as wind speed/compass etc. So whilst you can turn them off I thought they are banned in competitions?

 

[CMAC]

Sorry I meant using the GPS element but not the other features such as wind speed/compass etc. So whilst you can turn them off I thought they are banned in competitions?

if the 'banned' apps/functions are on the phone then best practice is NOT to use the gps part of the phone whether you have disabled it or not.
In a comp you could show the pro/starter/secretary that they are disabled but whats to stop an individual enabling them again on the course? as I say best practice is dont use it.

Personally never understood the rule anyway as knowing the gusting wind speed and compass direction would help me not one bit over what I see and feel.

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry I meant using the GPS element but not the other features such as wind speed/compass etc. So whilst you can turn them off I thought they are banned in competitions?

in danger of confusing it......basically there are completely seperate rules for DMDs; a smartphone used as a DMD is deemed to be a DMD for the purposes of the rules, if it's not used as a DMD then it's not subject to those rules.

 

[Colin L]

if the 'banned' apps/functions are on the phone then best practice is NOT to use the gps part of the phone whether you have disabled it or not.

It's not just a matter of best practice not to use the GPS on a device that has disallowed apps on it. It is essential, or you will be disqualified.

It doesn't matter whether the illegal apps are disabled, if you use a device like a phone that has them on it as a Distance Measuring Device you are in breach of 14-3. Showing that the illegal apps are disabled to the starter will not make any difference although it would have the useful effect of your being told you can't use the device before you start your round and thus save you from disqualification.

You might find this useful:
http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2012/March/Distance-Measuring-Devices.aspx

 

[CMAC]

It's not just a matter of best practice not to use the GPS on a device that has disallowed apps on it. It is essential, or you will be disqualified.

It doesn't matter whether the illegal apps are disabled, if you use a device like a phone that has them on it as a Distance Measuring Device you are in breach of 14-3. Showing that the illegal apps are disabled to the starter will not make any difference although it would have the useful effect of your being told you can't use the device before you start your round and thus save you from disqualification.

You might find this useful:
http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2012/March/Distance-Measuring-Devices.aspx

for best practice I'm meaning the only way, I should've made it clearer, best practice is a common phrase in my line for the only way, ie if you do use it its worst practice and can lead to disqualification.
I wasnt recommending starter approval Colin, just highlighting a potential scenario and the reason its also to be avoided.

Thanks for clearing it up.