Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[Ethan]

This may be of interest...
https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/long-covid

The Zoe stuff is very good. The hidden subclinical damage done to seemingly fully recovered people is somewhat separate from long Covid, though.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I am taking the point about long Covid and it will be worrying for those who have had Covid, obviously.
But, without diminishing your concerns, can you tell us Ethan if the same or similar can be said for the after effects of having had flu.?
I appreciate that you have said many times that Covid is not like flu, however, it may be helpful to know if Covid is unique in this respect.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Reading this thread, reminds me why I dont often pop into this thread nowdays or the out of bounds and what has happen to D4S, Murph and people on here.

Well worth reading this tweet and the attached piece :-

Prof Francois Balloux on Twitter: "I've written a piece for 'The Conversation' on the recent study reporting that COVID19 infection was associated to a loss of volume of some regions of the brain. 1/ https://t.co/jIvEKadspw" / Twitter


At some stage the zero covid people will get less coverage, as sadly zero covid is not going to happen. At some stage we will have to move on and as much as some hate the term but we are going to have to learn 'to live with covid'.

This I believe will mean the old normal will not return for many people, there is more to life/death than covid and we will have to balance up all harms to life, rather than trying to live our lives based on one harm and trying to protect everyone which we have clearly failed on.

All the best and take care of yourselves people.

 

[SaintHacker]

At some stage the zero covid people will get less coverage, as sadly zero covid is not going to happen. At some stage we will have to move on and as much as some hate the term but we are going to have to learn 'to live with covid'.

.

Which is exactly what Prof. Whitty said yesterday. Flu kills roughly 22k people a year, give or take, and that is seen as an acceptable outcome. Covid is currently killing a fraction of that amount, mosty due to the amazing work of the vaccine scientists. But it isn't going away, ever, so we need to decide what is an acceptable death rate for covid.
I am firmly of the belief now that the collateral damage from all the ongoing restrictions is going to have a far bigger negative impact going forward than covid itself, so its time we get going again.

 

[SocketRocket]

Which is exactly what Prof. Whitty said yesterday. Flu kills roughly 22k people a year, give or take, and that is seen as an acceptable outcome. Covid is currently killing a fraction of that amount, mosty due to the amazing work of the vaccine scientists. But it isn't going away, ever, so we need to decide what is an acceptable death rate for covid.
I am firmly of the belief now that the collateral damage from all the ongoing restrictions is going to have a far bigger negative impact going forward than covid itself, so its time we get going again.

What we don't get is detailed information on who are getting new infections and the demographics of who is dieing of Covid.

The infection rates are starting to go through the roof which is creating a small number of new deaths and an increase in hospitalisation. This increase in infections is concerning and could well lead to vaccine immune variants that would devastate the population. Is this the new normal people are looking forward to? IMO it's time to take off the kid gloves and become more aggressive with controlling and/or penalising those that are stunting our freedoms through their actions.

 

[road2ruin]

What we don't get is detailed information on who are getting new infections and the demographics of who is dieing of Covid.

The infection rates are starting to go through the roof which is creating a small number of new deaths and an increase in hospitalisation. This increase in infections is concerning and could well lead to vaccine immune variants that would devastate the population. Is this the new normal people are looking forward to? IMO it's time to take off the kid gloves and become more aggressive with controlling and/or penalising those that are stunting our freedoms through their actions.

But the increase in cases seems to be due to the massive rise in testing within schools/colleges rather than intentional rule breaking etc. In my area there are entire year groups off in local schools, my daughters school only has 1 year out of 4 in (albeit a small school with 1 year intakes) at the moment. A friends child is still in school but there are 8 positive cases in their class, all asymptomatic and only picked up as they are doing the lateral flow tests a couple of times a week.

 

[Billysboots]

Which is exactly what Prof. Whitty said yesterday. Flu kills roughly 22k people a year, give or take, and that is seen as an acceptable outcome. Covid is currently killing a fraction of that amount, mosty due to the amazing work of the vaccine scientists. But it isn't going away, ever, so we need to decide what is an acceptable death rate for covid.
I am firmly of the belief now that the collateral damage from all the ongoing restrictions is going to have a far bigger negative impact going forward than covid itself, so its time we get going again.

Totally agree. Whilst there is understandable concern that infections are spiralling, for the first time during this pandemic it looks very much as though hospital admissions and deaths are not following suit a couple of weeks later.

It seems to be that all the government are doing is buying time to really ramp up vaccinations amongst younger people - my 18 year old had his this morning. I fully expect, if admissions and deaths stay low even in the face of high infection rates come July 19, then the remaining shackles will be removed.

And that will be the final indication to us all that a decision has, indeed, been made that we will have to “live with it”. There is no alternative.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

But the increase in cases seems to be due to the massive rise in testing within schools/colleges rather than intentional rule breaking etc. In my area there are entire year groups off in local schools, my daughters school only has 1 year out of 4 in (albeit a small school with 1 year intakes) at the moment. A friends child is still in school but there are 8 positive cases in their class, all asymptomatic and only picked up as they are doing the lateral flow tests a couple of times a week.

What breakdown of figures I have seen is saying the majority of new infections is in youngsters.Up to 24 or so.
Although infection rates in my area have gone up quite a bit above national average, there are only 5 people in the areas hospitals.
That to me shows the vaccinination programme is winning, and things will get better as more get vaccinated.
An important consideration surely has to be - that we will not again be in our earlier situation where the majority ( earlier, the vast majority) are not vaccinated.
Already booster plans are being implemented.
We cannot keep the clamps on forever, in case one of the mutations might be
vaccine resistant.

 

[road2ruin]

What breakdown of figures I have seen is saying the majority of new infections is in youngsters.Up to 24 or so.
Although infection rates in my area have gone up quite a bit above national average, there are only 5 people in the areas hospitals.
That to me shows the vaccinination programme is winning, and things will get better as more get vaccinated.
An important consideration surely has to be - that we will not again be in our earlier situation where the majority ( earlier, the vast majority) are not vaccinated.
Already booster plans are being implemented.
We cannot keep the clamps on forever, in case one of the mutations might be
vaccine resistant.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

I would also add that I would like to see no testing in schools in the new school year as I don't really see what that achieves. Come September all adults will have been vaccinated (or at least offered the vaccine) and we know that children have very low risk from Covid so children should be off school if they're sick only. If we're going to keep having children isolating whilst being asymptomatic it will have huge affects on both the children's education and the parents ability to work. Plus there is also this issue that if children aren't allowed to be sick there could be even more issues as immunity to other things wear off.

 

[SocketRocket]

But the increase in cases seems to be due to the massive rise in testing within schools/colleges rather than intentional rule breaking etc. In my area there are entire year groups off in local schools, my daughters school only has 1 year out of 4 in (albeit a small school with 1 year intakes) at the moment. A friends child is still in school but there are 8 positive cases in their class, all asymptomatic and only picked up as they are doing the lateral flow tests a couple of times a week.

I disagree. The amount of new cases is due to people catching Covid due to their actions. Testing only goes to highlight that fact.

 

[road2ruin]

I disagree. The amount of new cases is due to people catching Covid due to their actions. Testing only goes to highlight that fact.

But those who are being tested are generally in school, that's where the majority of the testing is?

 

[SocketRocket]

But those who are being tested are generally in school, that's where the majority of the testing is?

You suggested the rise in new cases was due to testing, I'm just pointing out that testing doesn't create new cases, it only finds them. Further to that, if high cases are being created in schools then we need to find a solution to it.

Where is the data available that shows where new cases are being found, I have a suspicion it's more than in schools. Again the UK is becoming the leading European country for Covid infection rates, we need to be better at controlling it. High infections are really not good news.

 

[road2ruin]

You suggested the rise in new cases was due to testing, I'm just pointing out that testing doesn't create new cases, it only finds them. Further to that, if high cases are being created in schools then we need to find a solution to it.

Where is the data available that shows where new cases are being found, I have a suspicion it's more than in schools. Again the UK is becoming the leading European country for Covid infection rates, we need to be better at controlling it. High infections are really not good news.

Sorry, meant that cases of infections are no doubt increasing however it seems to be driven by those who have yet to be vaccinated which is generally those under the age of 18yrs at the moment, from what I've read this was planned for and the expectation is that cases will continue to rise especially with July 19th on the horizon. The important data though are hospitalisations/deaths and (fortunately) these are staying at relatively low levels and those who are in hospital are not requiring entry to ICU in the majority of instances.

I can only speak to my experiences locally and we've got entire classes out in a far few schools due to positive cases and we've also had parents testing positive despite having had 2 jabs but again the positive is that we've seen no serious illness.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Thursday night is Junior Coaching at the Club, since we restarted (6 weeks) we get anywhere between 15-20 kids attend.

Today I have been contacted by 8 parents to say their child is not attending because they are off school isolating after a classmate has tested positive, all 8 are in different classes in 5 different schools.

This is the first week any have been missing for this reason.

 

[Ethan]

You suggested the rise in new cases was due to testing, I'm just pointing out that testing doesn't create new cases, it only finds them. Further to that, if high cases are being created in schools then we need to find a solution to it.

Where is the data available that shows where new cases are being found, I have a suspicion it's more than in schools. Again the UK is becoming the leading European country for Covid infection rates, we need to be better at controlling it. High infections are really not good news.

Sorry, meant that cases of infections are no doubt increasing however it seems to be driven by those who have yet to be vaccinated which is generally those under the age of 18yrs at the moment, from what I've read this was planned for and the expectation is that cases will continue to rise especially with July 19th on the horizon. The important data though are hospitalisations/deaths and (fortunately) these are staying at relatively low levels and those who are in hospital are not requiring entry to ICU in the majority of instances.

I can only speak to my experiences locally and we've got entire classes out in a far few schools due to positive cases and we've also had parents testing positive despite having had 2 jabs but again the positive is that we've seen no serious illness.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Testing doesn't increase the number of people with symptoms but it will find more people with very low grade or no symptoms that would otherwise never be recorded. The Govt needs to make it more clear what numbers of tests are done for people with symptoms, contacts of cases and regular school/workplace surveillance.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I disagree. The amount of new cases is due to people catching Covid due to their actions. Testing only goes to highlight that fact.

You have a valid point re "their actions". But many of those actions are now permitted with the restrictions easing. Youngsters ( and ,yes, others),are going to be the ones most mixing. Also, because a lot are not vaccinated, they are going to pick it up and spread it.
It's a double whammy. Lifestyle spreads it more easily: secondly they ( and others) are not vaccinated . If we who are vaccinated behaved in the same manner ( as many do) we do not catch it enough to be tested. Nor do we spread it as easily.
Put all that together and there are more infections. That was expected to some extent. What seems to be holding is the much lower illness and death amongst the elderly who are vaccinated.
When we reach the situation where all over 18 have been offered double dosed, and there are still infections amongst those who have refused, the country must proceed to normal, surely.?
And in order to do so , I would support vaccination passports.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Totally agree. Whilst there is understandable concern that infections are spiralling, for the first time during this pandemic it looks very much as though hospital admissions and deaths are not following suit a couple of weeks later.

It seems to be that all the government are doing is buying time to really ramp up vaccinations amongst younger people - my 18 year old had his this morning. I fully expect, if admissions and deaths stay low even in the face of high infection rates come July 19, then the remaining shackles will be removed.

And that will be the final indication to us all that a decision has, indeed, been made that we will have to “live with it”. There is no alternative.

I very much look forward to "living with it", as the current "existing with it" isn't cutting it for me.

 

[SocketRocket]

You have a valid point re "their actions". But many of those actions are now permitted with the restrictions easing. Youngsters ( and ,yes, others),are going to be the ones most mixing. Also, because a lot are not vaccinated, they are going to pick it up and spread it.
It's a double whammy. Lifestyle spreads it more easily: secondly they ( and others) are not vaccinated . If we who are vaccinated behaved in the same manner ( as many do) we do not catch it enough to be tested. Nor do we spread it as easily.
Put all that together and there are more infections. That was expected to some extent. What seems to be holding is the much lower illness and death amongst the elderly who are vaccinated.
When we reach the situation where all over 18 have been offered double dosed, and there are still infections amongst those who have refused, the country must proceed to normal, surely.?
And in order to do so , I would support vaccination passports.

Hopefully I will be proved wrong but I fear this 'Living with it' policy will not end well.

 

[Billysboots]

Hopefully I will be proved wrong but I fear this 'Living with it' policy will not end well.

But if vaccines are shown to be working, and hospital admissions and deaths remain at low levels even in the face of high infection rates, surely the only option now is some degree of normality? We can’t expect to have gone to the lengths we have, with the spectacular vaccine rollout, and still ask people to live restricted lives.

Over 60% of the UK’s adults have now been double jabbed. Combine that with the number of infections amongst the younger population who haven’t been vaccinated, and we cannot be far from herd immunity. Normality is now the only option, and if it’s not on offer there will be uproar.

I understand your concern that living with Covid may not end well, but can you articulate that concern? Do you expect the vaccinated to start becoming seriously ill because there does not appear to be any evidence that is likely?

We either live with it, or we carry on with half empty football stadia, an almost blanket ban on foreign travel, not being able to stand at a bar and buy a pint, all the things we take for granted. Living with Covid, as we live with flu and other viruses, is surely the only option. And it’s one which appears to be far closer to being within our grasp than anyone could have dreamed fifteen months ago when we first retreated behind our front doors.

 

[road2ruin]

Hopefully I will be proved wrong but I fear this 'Living with it' policy will not end well.

Out of interest what is the alternative? Zero Covid is practically impossible to achieve and even if you did it'd likely to be temporary. We cannot keep the restrictions as they are as some industries will simply not survive and when you have sectors such as hospitality who account for around 7% of the UK's employment we cannot leave them to go under, the result would be a mess and very difficult to come back from. Likewise, children cannot be sent home for 10 days every time a close contact has a positive test, how many of those would have their lives ruined through bad luck?!

I don't see what the alternative to 'living with it' can be?