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Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And so in the last hour we hear - from the horses mouth - that removal of restrictions on 19th July is not irreversible - that being a different horse from that ridden by SJavid which stated yesterday that there was no reason for 19th July to be slipped. I’d go with today’s horse - the prospect of a slippage or change to what’s allowed from the 19th is depressing and is going to be difficult for me and my Mrs.
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Maybe the timeframe should be dictated by what the virus is doing, rather than what journalists badger politicians into saying.
 
GreiginFife said:
It will be difficult for a lot of people.
But, I'll bite. Tell us, in your infinite wisdom, would you do?
Instead of just complaining and starting every post with a foreboding "and so we hear..." tell us, what would your expertise recommend that we do on the 19th against a backdrop of increasing cases and increasing hospitalisations and people still losing family members on a daily basis to this virus.

Enlighten us...
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I am just saying what I heard today - which is not what we heard yesterday and so why I started...’and so we hear’.

I would stick with 19th and lift restrictions and requirements. The chaos around schools, events and hospitality is unsustainable and so we might as well just get on with living with the virus. And that is a change from my previous risk-averse thinking. I think the impact of the current risk arising from virus is not worth the mitigations - they are a cost too far for the many individuals and business that have been seriously impacted by the lockdowns and restrictions.

It is easier to take the opposite view and for restrictions to be maintained and/or date slipped if the pandemic has not really impacted you at all, or you have been furloughed or been in receipt of grants and so financially you are OK. But that is not the case for many and they need the support of the wider public if and when restrictions are lifted on the 19th.
 
pauldj42 said:
Spot on, and, politicians resist giving exact dates.
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To be fair to the politicians, they earmarked 17th June as the earliest date all restrictions would be eased. It was our wonderful press who then set about dubbing it “Freedom Day” and wound the great unwashed up to fever pitch when the government, quite rightly, delayed it.
 
RichA said:
Maybe the timeframe should be dictated by what the virus is doing, rather than what journalists badger politicians into saying.
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The virus is out there, it is still out there. It will always be out there with us. Lift the restrictions and watch very carefully for significant changes in the profile of illness arising from it. Unexpected changes in that profile and increases in deaths will tell us if we have to change anything about our ‘new normal‘ behaviour - but work out and publicise those contingency measures. Those who will now pick up and spread the virus are generally not going to become ill and put pressure on the NHS. Let them pick it up to build their immunity. Monitor the demographic of admissions to hospitals and adjust accordingly as necessary and defined in our contingency plans.
 
Billysboots said:
To be fair to the politicians, they earmarked 17th June as the earliest date all restrictions would be eased. It was our wonderful press who then set about dubbing it “Freedom Day” and wound the great unwashed up to fever pitch when the government, quite rightly, delayed it.
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Remember though that it was politicians who started talking about us getting back our freedoms on 16th June so what do you expect the media to call it but Freedom Day.
 
Billysboots said:
To be fair to the politicians, they earmarked 17th June as the earliest date all restrictions would be eased. It was our wonderful press who then set about dubbing it “Freedom Day” and wound the great unwashed up to fever pitch when the government, quite rightly, delayed it.
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I have no issue with politicians saying; early, mid, late….insert month etc, but by giving exact dates, it’s not just causing issues for the “great unwashed” as you unfairly descibe them, it’s business’s and normal people who are starting to plan their lives etc, business’s have to, they need to order stock etc.

As others have said, the media is best ignored.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
The virus is out there, it is still out there. It will always be out there with us. Lift the restrictions and watch very carefully for significant changes in the profile of illness arising from it. Unexpected changes in that profile and increases in deaths will tell us if we have to change anything about our ‘new normal‘ behaviour - but work out and publicise those contingency measures. Those who will now pick up and spread the virus are generally not going to become ill and put pressure on the NHS. Let them pick it up to build their immunity. Monitor the demographic of admissions to hospitals and adjust accordingly as necessary and defined in our contingency plans.
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Is that not exactly what's happening at the moment and why the next phase has been delayed?
 
pauldj42 said:
I have no issue with politicians saying; early, mid, late….insert month etc, but by giving exact dates, it’s not just causing issues for the “great unwashed” as you unfairly descibe them, it’s business’s and normal people who are starting to plan their lives etc, business’s have to, they need to order stock etc.

As others have said, the media is best ignored.
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But if you’re ordering in stock, especially perishables, you need exact dates. Ordering in raw materials for manufacturing for delivery on a specific date only for the stock or finished product sit on the shelves doesn’t see the bank’s clock on money owed stopping.
 
Hobbit said:
But if you’re ordering in stock, especially perishables, you need exact dates. Ordering in raw materials for manufacturing for delivery on a specific date only for the stock or finished product sit on the shelves doesn’t see the bank’s clock on money owed stopping.
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Exactly, so instead of giving an exact date 4-6 weeks in advance they should be more cautious, ie, 2nd week of XXX we will review, then either give a date or another review, surely it’s better they get a short 1 week notice than continual delays.

By the way, I support the delays, I feel sorry for the business owners.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I am just saying what I heard today - which is not what we heard yesterday and so why I started...’and so we hear’.

I would stick with 19th and lift restrictions and requirements. The chaos around schools, events and hospitality is unsustainable and so we might as well just get on with living with the virus. And that is a change from my previous risk-averse thinking. I think the impact of the current risk arising from virus is not worth the mitigations - they are a cost too far for the many individuals and business that have been seriously impacted by the lockdowns and restrictions.

It is easier to take the opposite view and for restrictions to be maintained and/or date slipped if the pandemic has not really impacted you at all, or you have been furloughed or been in receipt of grants and so financially you are OK. But that is not the case for many and they need the support of the wider public if and when restrictions are lifted on the 19th.
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i am in agreement with you. I need a drink!
 
pauldj42 said:
I have no issue with politicians saying; early, mid, late….insert month etc, but by giving exact dates, it’s not just causing issues for the “great unwashed” as you unfairly descibe them, it’s business’s and normal people who are starting to plan their lives etc, business’s have to, they need to order stock etc.

As others have said, the media is best ignored.
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In the main, most sensible people I have come across have always understood that the target dates set by government to remove us from lockdown were “not before” dates. They were very, very clear about that when the roadmap was set out.

Anyone who planned their lives on dates which were never set in stone to begin with was perhaps ill advised. And anyone who threw a hissy fit when June 17 came and went with us still not fully free from restrictions either never understood what was very clear to most in the first place, or placed far too much emphasis on what they read in the red-tops.
 
Dates were always accompanied with a caveat on what state we might find ourselves in. Can't understand why anyone would think otherwise.
I am understanding that the rise in cases is chiefly amongst the young, teens to 30 or so, I imagine because of lifestyle and not yet vaccinated.
But , as an elderly double dosed, it is concerning as to where the hospitalisations and deaths are mainly occurring? There doesn't seem to be a break down on that ( that I can find) as to whether double dosed elderly are being so affected.? I am hoping the vaccines are doing their job, because if so, then the situation is bound to improve soon and SILH has a point that at some stage we are going to be ( have to) able to live with this?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
The virus is out there, it is still out there. It will always be out there with us. Lift the restrictions and watch very carefully for significant changes in the profile of illness arising from it. Unexpected changes in that profile and increases in deaths will tell us if we have to change anything about our ‘new normal‘ behaviour - but work out and publicise those contingency measures. Those who will now pick up and spread the virus are generally not going to become ill and put pressure on the NHS. Let them pick it up to build their immunity. Monitor the demographic of admissions to hospitals and adjust accordingly as necessary and defined in our contingency plans.
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You are wrong that those who get the virus are not going to get ill. Few will die or end up in hospital right now, but a lot more will get long Covid or other organ damage that will bite them in the arse later. Good evidence of subclinical damage done to Covid survivors including brain, heart, kidney and liver, you know, the important stuff. These people are at high risk of organ failure way sooner than usual.

There is a latent period between people getting the virus and cases emerging, so responding fast is not easy, especially when those supposed to do so are disinclined to do anything unpopular.

And that circulating virus increases the chance of a new variant that might not be controlled by your vaccine.
 
Ethan said:
You are wrong that those who get the virus are not going to get ill. Few will die or end up in hospital right now, but a lot more will get long Covid or other organ damage that will bite them in the arse later. Good evidence of subclinical damage done to Covid survivors including brain, heart, kidney and liver, you know, the important stuff. These people are at high risk of organ failure way sooner than usual.

There is a latent period between people getting the virus and cases emerging, so responding fast is not easy, especially when those supposed to do so are disinclined to do anything unpopular.

And that circulating virus increases the chance of a new variant that might not be controlled by your vaccine.
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Is it know yet whether the long Covid signs start from having the disease or appear some time down the line when the patient believes they've recovered fully and it bites them in the arse?
 
AmandaJR said:
Is it know yet whether the long Covid signs start from having the disease or appear some time down the line when the patient believes they've recovered fully and it bites them in the arse?
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Long Covid usually involves people not really recovering. Sometimes vaccination helps, suggesting it is at least partly due to an immunological issue.

The subclinical damage is different, it is due to inflammatory changes in organs, not directly caused by virus but by various substances stimulated by the virus which then circulate around the body. These inflammatory effects of Covid are systemic - they can involve any organ and the vascular system, and there is mounting evidence that some people who had a very mild illness and seemed to fully recover have impairment of renal or liver function, one study has shown loss of brain tissue (known as brain atrophy, which you get in neurodegenerative diseases). I am a bit worried that over the next few years we will see a large number of young people going into renal failure, liver failure, people experiencing early dementia etc etc. This could be a bigger problem than the acute effects. Covid is a nasty nasty disease and people take it far too lightly.
 
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Ethan said:
Long Covid usually involves people not really recovering. Sometimes vaccination helps, suggesting it is at least partly due to an immunological issue.

The subclinical damage is different, it is due to inflammatory changes in organs. The inflammatory effects of Covid are systemic - they can involve any organ and the vascular system, and there is mounting evidence that some people who had a very mild illness and seemed to fully recover have impairment of renal or liver function, one study has shown loss of brain tissue (known as brain atrophy, which you get in neurodegenerative diseases). I am a bit worried that over the next few years we will see a large number of young people going into renal failure, liver failure, people experiencing early dementia etc etc. This could be a bigger problem than the acute effects. Covid is a nasty nasty disease and people take it far too lightly.
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Thanks Ethan. Very scary for sure - especially as we both had Covid back in November. Is it a message that should be being broadcast as much as possible to scare the "it's just like flu" or "we need to open hospitality now" brigade into taking it more seriously?
 
AmandaJR said:
Thanks Ethan. Very scary for sure - especially as we both had Covid back in November. Is it a message that should be being broadcast as much as possible to scare the "it's just like flu" or "we need to open hospitality now" brigade into taking it more seriously?
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Well, it is a tricky message when a lot of people have had Covid already, and when there was a de facto herd immunity strategy for a while, and some want a youth version now. Very early in the pandemic, there were some reports of odd things being observed, for example reports of increased rates of Type I (the immune type) diabetes in children, presumed to be caused by subclinical pancreatic damage. More recently, papers on brain effects using sophisticated imaging techniques have appeared from several reputable sources, (Harvard, UCL and others), and evidence about myocarditis, the same type of condition reported with the mRNA vaccines, seen with Covid. I suspect renal biopsies would show some changes too. Immunology and inflammation are closely related, so cross over between the two is not surprising and is seen in other settings, but it appears to have a lot of punch with Covid.

There is a high level of awareness of these problems in the medical profession, and the truth is there is nothing much you can do now, aside from try to prevent others from joining the party, so I expect that doctors will be looking out for any effects. It isn't going to be pandemic levels, but we will see younger people whose conditions are considered associated with previous Covid infection.
 
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