Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

As Ethan mentioned, no problem with being cautious and assessing.
This is being reported (admittedly by AZ)

The data supplied by AstraZeneca shows there have been 37 reports of blood clots among the 17m people across Europe who have been given the vaccine.

I couldn't locate the AZ by country stats, but on the basis the UK has vaccinated the most I think we can assume the same applies for AZ. I also couldn't locate the breakdown of clots per country.

Strange times.
 
AmandaJR said:
My jab is tomorrow. Wondering if the lastest scares on AZ will result in some no-shows. More for us I say and if they come back for more in the future we should tell them we're giving it away to countries that can't afford it. They won't like it up em!
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The numbers I have seen are 40 cases of blood clots in 17,000,000 jabs which if correct is 0.00024% of those jabbed. I'm not seeing that as a problem, but I'm not medically trained.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56404542
 
funkycoldmedina said:
Do you think they're postponing vaccinations with AZ because they're making some kind of gesture because it's British?
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No, they aren't. AZ is half-Swedish, actually, the Astra part. It beggars belief that the Scandos and the Dutch, both pretty anglophile, or the Germans, quite anglophile and incredibly rational, would do so.

I did a longer post above saying that this is both normal practice for regulators and what we should expect. The opposite question is why is the UK seemingly so relaxed about it. Most serious drug safety problems begin with a trickle of cases, before it is discovered that a whole lot more were not reported until people looked back at some cases they assumed were just normal for older people.
 
Blue in Munich said:
The numbers I have seen are 40 cases of blood clots in 17,000,000 jabs which if correct is 0.00024% of those jabbed. I'm not seeing that as a problem, but I'm not medically trained.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56404542
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Me either but the little bits I have read suggest it's no more than normal in that number of the general population (especially the age groups vaccinated so far). It's not made me have any concerns whatsoever.
 
AmandaJR said:
Me either but the little bits I have read suggest it's no more than normal in that number of the general population (especially the age groups vaccinated so far). It's not made me have any concerns whatsoever.
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No point me worrying about it; it's already in there and there's no chance of finding the 5ml in something this size & removing it!
 
Ethan said:
No, they aren't. AZ is half-Swedish, actually, the Astra part. It beggars belief that the Scandos and the Dutch, both pretty anglophile, or the Germans, quite anglophile and incredibly rational, would do so.

I did a longer post above saying that this is both normal practice for regulators and what we should expect. The opposite question is why is the UK seemingly so relaxed about it. Most serious drug safety problems begin with a trickle of cases, before it is discovered that a whole lot more were not reported until people looked back at some cases they assumed were just normal for older people.
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Precisely. I find it staggering that it's been suggested it's a concerted effort by European countries to rubbish the good 'ol British vaccine and the stick right up em when it's found to be safe. They're just doing what any medicine's regulatory body should do.
Jingoism is alive and well though I expected better from the originator.
 
Blue in Munich said:
The numbers I have seen are 40 cases of blood clots in 17,000,000 jabs which if correct is 0.00024% of those jabbed. I'm not seeing that as a problem, but I'm not medically trained.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56404542
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That is 40 cases reported to AZ, but reporting rates are often low. Most doctors rarely fill in a yellow card (the reporting system) for something they are not expecting, which unfortunately is the opposite of what you want. You want the unusual stuff reported.

One issue is that if a medicine causes blood clots, it may cause a range of other sort of damage, small clots in kidney, heart vessels, brain not immediately recognised as being a clotting problem, so if you see people with a blue foot because of a clot in a leg artery, that is clear enough, but renal failures, heart attacks and strokes might not be identified as caused by clots as such. Vascular effects are taken very seriously by most authorities.
 
Imurg said:
Do we know how soon these clots show?
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The chances are that they are unrelated to the vax, the debate really is more about whether it is reasonable to pause and assess the events, which I think is basic regulatory oversight, rather than whether it is a true signal. The majority of these adverse event investigations end up negative, but you don't know at the start which one will or won't.

It is plausible, because the vax induces an immune response and part of that is inflammatory and could cause inflammation in vessels. The AZ uses a viral vector which can itself induce an additional immune response and an inflammatory response. However, a problem is very unlikely, you are more likely to crash your car on the way to the vax centre, and the harm caused by Covid is considerably greater. But the regulators are right to take it seriously.

I expect that they will give an all-clear by the end of the week or soon after.
 
Blue in Munich said:
The numbers I have seen are 40 cases of blood clots in 17,000,000 jabs which if correct is 0.00024% of those jabbed. I'm not seeing that as a problem, but I'm not medically trained.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56404542
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And if none of those 17,000,000 had been jabbed how many may have got blood clots, (possibly 40), how many may have died of Covid, (possibly more than 40), and how many people may they have passed the virus on to, (possibly tens of thousands)?
 
spongebob59 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1371535408522215424
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The well known epidemiologist Iain Dale. I wonder what point he is making?.

One obvious answer could be that the age-mix of people who have received Pfizer is older than those who received AZ, so the expected background rates of clots, an age-related phenomenon, is also different, and in comparison the true risk level with Pfizer is actually lower.
 
Slime said:
And if none of those 17,000,000 had been jabbed how many may have got blood clots, (possibly 40), how many may have died of Covid, (possibly more than 40), and how many people may they have passed the virus on to, (possibly tens of thousands)?
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Possibly 40, a lot more and who knows, respectively. But the process for sorting out adverse events starts with "Is this event related to taking the medicine?". The bit you are getting at comes later and is the "OK, there is a tiny extra risk. Is it still worth it?". Not that I am saying I think there IS a tiny extra risk, but even if there were, it wouldn't change the benefit-risk. Therefore, I expect a swift conclusion to this which results in reinstatement and business as usual.
 
Ethan said:
The well known epidemiologist Iain Dale. I wonder what point he is making?.

One obvious answer could be that the age-mix of people who have received Pfizer is older than those who received AZ, so the expected background rates of clots, an age-related phenomenon, is also different, and in comparison the true risk level with Pfizer is actually lower.
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I think he was asking why the AZ vaccine is being singled out on this issue by the EU.
 
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