Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[Papas1982]

Also what is the NHS going to do to make sure BAME communities take the vaccine? I saw a recent poll stated only 28% in such communities would take the vaccine, despite being at much higher risk.

Ostracise anyone who refuses it.

My old dear was dubious about taking it, shes had her letter.
I had the kids FaceTime her, told her to get used to it as she’d not see em in person. Soon did the trick.

 

[SocketRocket]

We shouldn't look at increasing protection for sections of society purely because they are dying?

By locking them away.?

 

[bluewolf]

By locking them away.?

Where are they now?

 

[DanFST]

By locking them away.?

So "locking away" everyone hasn't worked. We didn't implement the processes to stop the spread, we lost control.

Older people are still dying at a tragic rate, and everyone is "locked away". Hospitals are at breaking point with those high risk sections of society. People with minimal risk of hospitalisation from covid are dying due to missing other treatments, suicide etc.

A change of tact surely should be investigated. We can't contain the spread, we are in a perpetual cycle of lockdowns and then moderate normality.

 

[Papas1982]

So find me that stat that shows percentage of people with long covid and their age ranges.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/long-covid
10% of the under 50s who have severe covid May go on to suffer long covid.
so like I say. Open the world up to that age range and allow them the choice.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I agree that they should obviously be restricted in what they can do. I’m really REALLY uncomfortable with the idea of an NHS tax though. Where does that end? Smoke? - tax. Drink? - tax.

I think both drinkers and smokers are already highly taxed

I’m very much in agreement that anyone turning down the vaccine should be restricted in regards travel and crowded venues etc

By locking them away.?

They are already locked away - but all of us are

 

[Ethan]

I agree that they should obviously be restricted in what they can do. I’m really REALLY uncomfortable with the idea of an NHS tax though. Where does that end? Smoke? - tax. Drink? - tax.

It isn't going to happen, and was meant provocatively rather than realistically, but the point is that some people are knowingly putting avoidable risk to others and avoidable costs to the NHS, not to mention displacing non-Covid access, by their decisions, and they should be accountable for the broader societal effects as well as accepting personal risk.

I think smoking and drinking are a bit different. I hate smoking as much as anyone, but at one time it was seen as acceptable and normal, even advertised with health benefits. Alcohol has a J-shaped association with health risk, with possible health benefits at low doses, but harm at higher doses. There is no health benefit to the individual or society from vaccination refusal.

 

[Hobbit]

We shouldn't look at increasing protection for sections of society purely because they are dying?

You post up a decent argument for opening up, and then you go and post up a one liner which is just rank!

How about we also go to the other end of the spectrum and do away with lollypop ladies and just let small children cross the road without any 'protection?' That's basically your logic.

For me, recommend isolation for the old. If they decide not, their choice. In the at risk age group, vaccinate those that are active - as Ethan said, Doris who sits in an armchair in the corner of the residents lounge in a care home isn't really at risk especially if the staff and those visiting take adequate precautions, inc being vaccinated.

Then vaccinate from the at risk group down through the diminishing risk groups. Include early vaccination for those that work across the risk groups.

Create a 'vaccine passport.' Those that refuse the vaccine, their choice, can't get travel insurance nor gain access to concerts for football matches. And for those that shout "civil liberties," don't forget there's already laws based on age for drinking alcohol.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You post up a decent argument for opening up, and then you go and post up a one liner which is just rank!

How about we also go to the other end of the spectrum and do away with lollypop ladies and just let small children cross the road without any 'protection?' That's basically your logic.

For me, recommend isolation for the old. If they decide not, their choice. In the at risk age group, vaccinate those that are active - as Ethan said, Doris who sits in an armchair in the corner of the residents lounge in a care home isn't really at risk especially if the staff and those visiting take adequate precautions, inc being vaccinated.

Then vaccinate from the at risk group down through the diminishing risk groups. Include early vaccination for those that work across the risk groups.

Create a 'vaccine passport.' Those that refuse the vaccine, their choice, can't get travel insurance nor gain access to concerts for football matches. And for those that shout "civil liberties," don't forget there's already laws based on age for drinking alcohol.

...and there are plenty of jobs, roles and activities from which I am excluded if I refuse to accept that I must have certain investigations, clearances and certifications carried out on me - and in some circumstances carried out on my immediate family also.

 

[DanFST]

You post up a decent argument for opening up, and then you go and post up a one liner which is just rank!

It's not my logic, it was a direct response to Sockets post before. I just changed "punishment" to "protection", as it astounded me.

Let's not look at punishing sections of society purely because they are dying

I agree with everything you said.

 

[PNWokingham]

The Sweden model has been unravelling, though. Much much worse death rates but no better economic performance than its immediate neighbours.

I said Sweden plus not as it is

 

[Ethan]

I said Sweden plus not as it is

Sure, but to paraphrase the old apocryphal Irish expression, if I was going there, I wouldn't start from here. The assumptions underlying Sweden were shown to be wrong. Better to start from the other end, as a hard tight lockdown a la NZ will clearly work if adequate restriction of movement is applied, then work back to see where that is unnecessary.

 

[clubchamp98]

There is another interesting question looming. What accommodations should be made for vaccine refusers? As society reopens, there will be an expectation that people are vaccinated, in some jobs (NHS, Pimlico Plumbers), to travel by air and possibly for admission into some entertainment venues. Assuming there are very few who have a genuine medical reason not to get any form of vaccination, how should we deal with the rest? They will still get Covid circulating amongst themselves, need ICU admission etc, although in relatively small numbers.

My default position is that they have made a choice and need to live with the consequences, not travel, not go to whatever entertainment venues require vaccination, not work in the NHS or Pimlico Plumbers, etc. Perhaps they should pay some extra tax for the healthcare costs that may result?

How would we enforce that at say a rock concert.
We would all need a Central Database number that you would need to quote to buy tickets.
But we would just use someone else’s name.
I agree it needs to be done ,but the logistics would be a nightmare.

 

[Ethan]

How would we enforce that at say a rock concert.
We would all need a Central Database number that you would need to quote to buy tickets.
But we would just use someone else’s name.
I agree it needs to be done ,but the logistics would be a nightmare.

You would need some sort of vaccination passport, ideally on a phone. QR code which confirms identity, matched to name on ticket, with vaccination status.

As an aside, if any of you have the NHS App (not the track and trace one, the general app), you can link it to your GP surgery and your medication history, including vaccinations will be visible. I imagine it would not be too difficult to use software to convert that information into a more friendly digital certificate.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

How would we enforce that at say a rock concert.
We would all need a Central Database number that you would need to quote to buy tickets.
But we would just use someone else’s name.
I agree it needs to be done ,but the logistics would be a nightmare.

They were talking about an app being developed for this purpose. A number of European countries are keen on this as well. In the instance you give, to gain entrance to the concert you would need your ticket and the passport app showing that you have been vaccinated. The ticket would have your name on it, as would the app.

 

[DanFST]

You would need some sort of vaccination passport, ideally on a phone. QR code which confirms identity, matched to name on ticket, with vaccination status.

Ideal for the future, q1 2022. Problem comes is what do you do before then?


If that was to come in by the summer lets say. Young people haven't been overloading hospitals, they've been subject to the same rules as those at high risk. And then to add more, they are at the bottom of the list to have a normal life once again.

 

[Papas1982]

They were talking about an app being developed for this purpose. A number of European countries are keen on this as well. In the instance you give, to gain entrance to the concert you would need your ticket and the passport app showing that you have been vaccinated. The ticket would have your name on it, as would the app.

That would also knock touts on the head.

Let’s get it made!

 

[PJ87]

Correct me if I'm wrong (probably). But I thought the vaccine(s) are less than 100% effective, i.e. it doesn't work for everyone. The success of a vaccination programme is therefore a function of the effectiveness of the vaccine and the proportion of the population who have been vaccinated. Protection comes from less people being susceptible so less virus circulating so less chance of those for whom the vaccine didn't work catching it. i.e. "Herd Immunity" (via vaccination, not the discredited Swedish model)

In which case, nobody's getting out of lockdown when the elderly have been vaccinated - more like when a suitable percentage of the entire population have had it?

From what I've read once the 17 million vunerable have been vaccinated then restrictions can be reduced as those 17 million were those most likely to need the NHS and most likely to die.

Once they are done they can handle the strain from the others getting covid because it's less likely those would need hospitalisation and would most likely recover

 

[Tashyboy]

Hypothetically speaking The UKs population is 66.6 million. 3.3 million ish have had there first vaccines. 3.3 million have had Covid. There’s about 60 million that have had neither. Every day that gap of 60 million decreases. At what stage can open get back to normality re amount of folk that have vaccines and the amount of folk that will of had Covid. ?
That aside our local councillor put a post up on Facebook earlier today. Nottingham evening post rang him and said our community has the second highest rates in the country. I was in Aldi doing the big shop yesterday. It is not hard to see why.
Stay safe folks.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Correct me if I'm wrong (probably). But I thought the vaccine(s) are less than 100% effective, i.e. it doesn't work for everyone. The success of a vaccination programme is therefore a function of the effectiveness of the vaccine and the proportion of the population who have been vaccinated. Protection comes from less people being susceptible so less virus circulating so less chance of those for whom the vaccine didn't work catching it. i.e. "Herd Immunity" (via vaccination, not the discredited Swedish model)

In which case, nobody's getting out of lockdown when the elderly have been vaccinated - more like when a suitable percentage of the entire population have had it?

Whats suitable percentage ?

With them not starting on under 60’s until the summer when would you expect lockdown to end ?

They are expected the most vunerable to be done in 4 weeks - that’s when Imo lockdown restrictions will ease

The numbers are already on the way down - current restrictions are working

If they start to creep into March that’s two months of lockdown and many businesses especially hospitality will be gone - the affects on the country from the lockdown could potentially be worse than the virus itself