Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

Pathetic Shark said:
Really sad but annoying story this one.

Friend of my daughters - hasn't taken a blind bit of notice of most restrictions. Gets together at Christmas with his family - around 15 of them so puts them in the same category of stupidity. He then falls ill on Boxing Day and gets a positive test. One of his grand-parents falls ill a couple of days later and died yesterday from Covid. His first post on social media - blames the Government and the NHS for not doing more for him.

What honestly can you do?
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I mentioned to Missis T when we were going into the second lockdown to “ save Christmas”. I wonder who will be the first to blame a n other when someone dies from the Covid Due to having Xmas together. It was always going to happen.
our Xmas Consisted of seeing the grandkids who we look after and that’s it. We said point blank we are not being stupid. Lo and behold the Tash household is now riddled with Covid. I spent last night ringing me brother to do me mum and dads shopping. Ave told them they have to isolate again. Hopefully this vaccine is within the next month for them.
PS, re your post, the family of the grand parent who has passed away. They got there wish, they spent there last Christmas together. Over the years they have to live with the guilt of there stupidity.
 
Pathetic Shark said:
Really sad but annoying story this one.

Friend of my daughters - hasn't taken a blind bit of notice of most restrictions. Gets together at Christmas with his family - around 15 of them so puts them in the same category of stupidity. He then falls ill on Boxing Day and gets a positive test. One of his grand-parents falls ill a couple of days later and died yesterday from Covid. His first post on social media - blames the Government and the NHS for not doing more for him.

What honestly can you do?
Click to expand...

I am sure that even the most self-unaware cretin must know they may have had a hand in that death, and is deflecting.
 
Lump said:
A family friend has just died, his death has been put down to COVID.
He was diagnosed with COVID early on( first lockdown) but it was actually un-diagnosed cancer that was making him ill. Turns out he had stage 4 cancer. Less than 2 months from finding out to when he passed.
This is why I don’t believe the death numbers are a true reflection of what’s happening.
We are now at the point where un-diagnosed illnesses are taking life’s due to no treatment and being ticked up to COVID as they may have had a positive test within 28 days.
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Sad news.
Are you worried the figures reported are too high because of this?
I think most believe these exceptions are more than balanced out by other factors.
E.g.
aviary-image-1608142775514.jpeg
 
Lump said:
A family friend has just died, his death has been put down to COVID.
He was diagnosed with COVID early on( first lockdown) but it was actually un-diagnosed cancer that was making him ill. Turns out he had stage 4 cancer. Less than 2 months from finding out to when he passed.
This is why I don’t believe the death numbers are a true reflection of what’s happening.
We are now at the point where un-diagnosed illnesses are taking life’s due to no treatment and being ticked up to COVID as they may have had a positive test within 28 days.
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That is a rare occurrence, as are the other 'had a positive test then got hit by a bus' type examples cited on social media as an attempt to riddle the figures. People die of unsuspected cancer all the time, just not very many of them. People also die with cancer but where it isn't the cause of death. This is quite common for prostate cancer, for example.

Anyway, in the general population, the background risk of death in the next 28 days, the Covid definition period, is very very small, even for elderly people, for example, less than 1% at age 80, and massively smaller at younger ages, so you can safely assume that the number of people said to die of Covid but who died of something they would have died of anyway if Covid had never happened, is very few indeed.

The official Covid number is of most value as a trend over time. We want to know if a similar number, a greater number or fewer people are dying with time. The systematic errors in that estimate due to other causes or test problems are more or less constant, so the underlying trend is still valid. Note also that there are people not included in that number but who died of Covid. That includes people who are ill in ICU or hospital for more than 28 days, and those who died without having a test. I am pretty certain there are more missed than wrongly included.

The death certificate for your friend, could, depending how things panned out either Primary cause of death cancer, with contributing factor of Covid, or the other way round.
 
All this discussion over how the figures are calculated seems rather irrelevant.

Whether it's 60,000 or 70,000 there surely is no question that the pandemic is taking a great toll and an obsession with some perverse league table is unlikely to help much in overcoming the virus.

Anyway just how many people do we think have been knocked down by these mythical buses?
 
Ethan said:
That is a rare occurrence, as are the other 'had a positive test then got hit by a bus' type examples cited on social media as an attempt to riddle the figures. People die of unsuspected cancer all the time, just not very many of them. People also die with cancer but where it isn't the cause of death. This is quite common for prostate cancer, for example.

Anyway, in the general population, the background risk of death in the next 28 days, the Covid definition period, is very very small, even for elderly people, for example, less than 1% at age 80, and massively smaller at younger ages, so you can safely assume that the number of people said to die of Covid but who died of something they would have died of anyway if Covid had never happened, is very few indeed.

The official Covid number is of most value as a trend over time. We want to know if a similar number, a greater number or fewer people are dying with time. The systematic errors in that estimate due to other causes or test problems are more or less constant, so the underlying trend is still valid. Note also that there are people not included in that number but who died of Covid. That includes people who are ill in ICU or hospital for more than 28 days, and those who died without having a test. I am pretty certain there are more missed than wrongly included.

The death certificate for your friend, could, depending how things panned out either Primary cause of death cancer, with contributing factor of Covid, or the other way round.
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Ethan, Can you clarify that Covid-19 has to be put on the death certificate, regardless off cause of death, if the person has tested positive in previous 28 days as it is one of the 5 “notifiable diseases” or something like that? Sorry to be vague, I’m sure there was an article I read somewhere saying certain illness’s MUST be recorded regardless of whether they were the cause of death.
 
Lump said:
A family friend has just died, his death has been put down to COVID.
He was diagnosed with COVID early on( first lockdown) but it was actually un-diagnosed cancer that was making him ill. Turns out he had stage 4 cancer. Less than 2 months from finding out to when he passed.
This is why I don’t believe the death numbers are a true reflection of what’s happening.
We are now at the point where un-diagnosed illnesses are taking life’s due to no treatment and being ticked up to COVID as they may have had a positive test within 28 days.
Click to expand...
It’s about a consistent way of counting. You can’t get 100% right in terms of died of COVID vs died and also had COVID, but by having something consistent you can trend.

And having something not diagnosed before because COVID didn’t make it possible, it might just be a COVID death due to that. A lot of people pointed out that routine tests were falling behind since March and deaths would be following that.
 
If someone has a positive covid test and is well and two weeks later has a road traffic accident and dies They would not have Covid entred on their death certificate. It would be recorded in the regular updates of people who have died of covid at the time of registration. It would not be recorded in the regular ONS of deaths where covid is mentioned on the death certificate.

If someone contracts covid and tests positive and then spends a month in ITU and dies they will have Covid recorded on their death certificate but will not be reported in the 28 day regular updates but will be reported in the ONS figures.

If someone is seriously ill with terminal cancer and contracts covid before dieing it would usually be recorded as a death with cancer as the primary diagnosis but Covid as a contributing factor and depending on the timing may be recorded in both figures. However the ONS also distinguish between cases where COvid is the primary cause of death and those where it is a contributory but not primary cause of death.
The last time I saw figures I think it was around 80-90% where Covid was the primary cause of death,
 
Backache said:
If someone has a positive covid test and is well and two weeks later has a road traffic accident and dies They would not have Covid entred on their death certificate. It would be recorded in the regular updates of people who have died of covid at the time of registration. It would not be recorded in the regular ONS of deaths where covid is mentioned on the death certificate.

If someone contracts covid and tests positive and then spends a month in ITU and dies they will have Covid recorded on their death certificate but will not be reported in the 28 day regular updates but will be reported in the ONS figures.

If someone is seriously ill with terminal cancer and contracts covid before dieing it would usually be recorded as a death with cancer as the primary diagnosis but Covid as a contributing factor and depending on the timing may be recorded in both figures. However the ONS also distinguish between cases where COvid is the primary cause of death and those where it is a contributory but not primary cause of death.
The last time I saw figures I think it was around 80-90% where Covid was the primary cause of death,
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This is the bit I am confused on, I totally agree and understand the cause of death is not Covid, but I am sure it has to be recorded somewhere (I thought death certificate, so apologise for lack of knowledge) so the body is handled correctly, ie, in line with infectious disease control etc.
So my question is, If not the death certificate, where is it shown?
 
Had a phone call off the NHS track and trace team. They were after Missis T but she was still tucked up in bed so I answered the questions.
He said “ I know it sounds a silly question but will you isolate for the duration “. “ of course we will” I said. He then said” you would be surprised how many don't”.?
 
Pathetic Shark said:
Really sad but annoying story this one.

Friend of my daughters - hasn't taken a blind bit of notice of most restrictions. Gets together at Christmas with his family - around 15 of them so puts them in the same category of stupidity. He then falls ill on Boxing Day and gets a positive test. One of his grand-parents falls ill a couple of days later and died yesterday from Covid. His first post on social media - blames the Government and the NHS for not doing more for him.

What honestly can you do?
Click to expand...

Shoot him?
Or maybe explain how he was instrumental in the death of his grand-parent ................................ then shoot him!
 
pauldj42 said:
This is the bit I am confused on, I totally agree and understand the cause of death is not Covid, but I am sure it has to be recorded somewhere (I thought death certificate, so apologise for lack of knowledge) so the body is handled correctly, ie, in line with infectious disease control etc.
So my question is, If not the death certificate, where is it shown?
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Often staff don't have access to the death certificate anyway. There should be a form accompanying the body saying it is a potential source of infection.
 
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