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Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Though I suspect that in your business life that that is simply not what you'd expect or demand from your senior management if there was a serious and high profile error. You just wouldn't say - never mind lads - just get on with things - and try not and do it again. Because - for example - as in this instance it will not just have been the Developers...

No - you would demand a 'drain covers up' root cause analysis with senior managers reporting to you directly on what had happened, and on whether anything similar might have happened previously but that hasn't come to light; you'd expect them to take responsibility for ensuring that an improvement plan was put in place to ensure that such a mistake was not made again. And you'd ensure that one or more senior managers would be responsible for overseeing delivery of that improvement plan - with regular reporting direct to you.

Well - if you wouldn't do any of that then I sure as heck would (as, having been in the middle of a significant IT security breach storm around a major government system made public in the Sunday Mail - I know what happens)
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What happens inside the organisation is not the point I'm making, heads may well get banged together, some heads may even roll but as I said the issue will get sorted. I didn't suggest that the matter should not be dealt with properly, did I?
What I said was that it will get sorted and people have made their point but continueing to harp on about it infenitem is pointless.
 
SocketRocket said:
It's just an example of how some of the most expert organisations can make mistakes with design. In this case thankfully it was discovered just prior to going into service.
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Yeah but this error has been made in the midst of a pandemic potentially putting thousands of lives at risk. So whilst you might feel comfortable with the "ach, we'll be right next time" approach, many people are not ok with that. Using Excel is not a great solution in much less critical solutions, but to use XLS format in ANY critical data schema is not even amateur. A format that hasn't been standard for at least 5 years.
 
GreiginFife said:
Yeah but this error has been made in the midst of a pandemic potentially putting thousands of lives at risk. So whilst you might feel comfortable with the "ach, we'll be right next time" approach, many people are not ok with that. Using Excel is not a great solution in much less critical solutions, but to use XLS format in ANY critical data schema is not even amateur. A format that hasn't been standard for at least 5 years.
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What makes you think my view is "ach, we'll be right next time" I didn't say that. I said the mistake has happened and mistakes do happen, they always will and especially when development is carried out in times of stress and with short timescales. Of course it's not good and we would like products to be fault free, especially when dealing with a track and trace system like this but crap happens and all we can do is move on and learn from it.
 
SocketRocket said:
What makes you think my view is "ach, we'll be right next time" I didn't say that. I said the mistake has happened and mistakes do happen, they always will and especially when development is carried out in times of stress and with short timescales. Of course it's not good and we would like products to be fault free, especially when dealing with a track and trace system like this but crap happens and all we can do is move on and learn from it.
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Your general blase attitude to what is potentially a deadly error, not figuratively, literally, gave that impression.
No, I don't believe all we can do is move on and learn. Someone, or a group of people, needs to do a full review of this and accountability needs to be meted out. This is not a problem with a banking app meaning folk can't get a tenner from a bank, this is life and death, again literally.

Clearly, as you prove on so many threads, your view and opinion is so entrenched that no one, certainly not me, will change that view but many people want this dealt with accordingly and not just "we learn and move on". We learn, we prevent and we take necessary action.
 
GreiginFife said:
Your general blase attitude to what is potentially a deadly error, not figuratively, literally, gave that impression.
No, I don't believe all we can do is move on and learn. Someone, or a group of people, needs to do a full review of this and accountability needs to be meted out. This is not a problem with a banking app meaning folk can't get a tenner from a bank, this is life and death, again literally.

Clearly, as you prove on so many threads, your view and opinion is so entrenched that no one, certainly not me, will change that view but many people want this dealt with accordingly and not just "we learn and move on". We learn, we prevent and we take necessary action.
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You continue to take my comments out of context and follow that up by accusing me of an entrenched attitude. I was making the point that mistakes happen in system design and always will, to expect them not to is unreasonable in my opinion.

In saying we should learn and move on I'm not suggesting we simply drop the matter and forget the errors made. To learn is to understand what has happened, why it's happened and to improve systems to help prevent them happening again, OK I may not have said that but it wasn't the point I was making, my point was that in the very best of organisations mistakes happen some times, not intentionally but for a number of reasons.

I don't really disagree with what you are suggesting regarding how to the issue should be dealt with in the organisation.
 
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1313175861902753793/photo/1

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/10/02/science.abf0521

Seems after months of almost ignoring it, the aerosol route of infection, is starting to be recognised by official bodies. Which means people don't need to cough and pebble dash you with virus that you can feel in their spit. Indoor is much higher risk and non n95/99 masks aren't going to do a lot to filter out tiny particles in aerosol and help reduce aerosol transmission, as the particles are so small they just pass though/around the cloth fibres/mask into the air and social distancing isn't going to be great either in the indoor non vented environment.

Cant think why meeting up with people inside is spreading the virus.:whistle: But then all the antidote evidence in the main indicates this and the early studies.
 
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DRW said:
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1313175861902753793/photo/1

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/10/02/science.abf0521

Seems after months of almost ignoring it, the aerosol route of infection, is starting to be recognised by official bodies. Which means people don't need to cough and pebble dash you with virus that you can feel in their spit. Indoor is much higher risk and non n95/99 masks aren't going to do a lot to filter out tiny particles in aerosol and help reduce aerosol transmission, as the particles are so small they just pass though/around the cloth fibres/mask into the air and social distancing isn't going to be great either in the indoor non vented environment.

Cant think why meeting up with people inside is spreading the virus.:whistle: But then all the antidote evidence in the main indicates this and the early studies.
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I have been of the view that breathing in someone else's breath is how this virus does spread. I haven't understood that you have to be "in the line of Fire" of a cough etc as being the main way it is spread. It is certainly the most likely way on a best chance basis.
But from the offset, breathing in "contaminated air" is how it happens.
Which is why re circulated air on planes is an extremely good way to get the virus. Why cinemas, and sitting close etc. was banned.
I don't think it has been ignored for months, but I think it has been the economy pressures that have led to "letting things slide, "re close contact.
Hence pubs and restaurants re opening, dentists etc restarting.
Anyone who sits with others in an enclosed space has a good chance of getting the virus if some in that space are Covid positive.
 
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Old Skier said:
God was there ever a final solution
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The HNSP discussion actually started about historical etiquette and how aspects of it may or may not apply today.

The specific example I raised was around the etiquette in respect of where you stand when another player is teeing off. I myself have no hesitation or embarrassments in asking someone to move if I do not like ie distract me, where someone is standing when I am about to tee off, but some golfers find that difficult to do - especially if they do not really know or know well the player.

The point of the HNSP discussion was that I was suggesting things are much easier all round if, where possible, we stand in a place that it has been found through time that most find acceptable - and that place was referred to as the HNSP (Historical Natural Standing Position).

Just bringing everyone up to speed ?
 
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Jamesbrown said:
What’s the historical standing position? :ROFLMAO:
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Same as it has ever been, not to endanger people or put lives at risk.

BTW ....Show a bit of respect to the originator of the term and at least get the name right.
HNSSP you missed out the Safe.:mad::mad::mad:

Just thought how that now applies to Covid and all the numpties not standing in a safe position.:eek:
 
Swinglowandslow said:
I have been of the view that breathing in someone else's breath is how this virus does spread. I haven't understood that you have to be "in the line of Fire" of a cough etc as being the main way it is spread. It is certainly the most likely way on a best chance basis.
But from the offset, breathing in "contaminated air" is how it happens.
Which is why re circulated air on planes is an extremely good way to get the virus. Why cinemas, and sitting close etc. was banned.
I don't think it has been ignored for months, but I think it has been the economy pressures that have led to "letting things slide, "re close contact.
Hence pubs and restaurants re opening, dentists etc restarting.
Anyone who sits with others in an enclosed space has a good chance of getting the virus if some in that space are Covid positive.
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It has been obvious for some time that prolonged close contact in enclosed (and especially poorly ventilated) spaces is where transmission takes place. it could have been inferred that aerosol transmission was therefore involved. Eat Out To Spread it About may not have been such a good idea.

The flip side is that outdoors stuff should be encouraged as it is in a much lower risk category.
 
Ethan said:
It has been obvious for some time that prolonged close contact in enclosed (and especially poorly ventilated) spaces is where transmission takes place. it could have been inferred that aerosol transmission was therefore involved. Eat Out To Spread it About may not have been such a good idea.

The flip side is that outdoors stuff should be encouraged as it is in a much lower risk category.
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...and of course looking back to when we were in lockdown - I am thinkin that it didn't actually matter that much whether we wore a mask or not as our opportunity for contact with anyone outside of our household was extremely limited. Wearing a mask at that time would possibly have been judged as only being likely to introduce a marginal reduction in risk of transmission - whilst making a lot harder for all to accept all the changes in behaviour and associated restrictions that were absolutely essential.

I am guessing that there may have been some thinking of that sort around why mask-wearing was not stressed or mandated from the outset. But as we have become more accustomed to the measures we are living under and following - and as transmission rate came down and opportunities for contact with other households increased - the reduction in risk of transmission between households afforded by mask wearing has become relatively significant.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...and of course looking back to when we were in lockdown - it didn't actually matter that much whether we wore a mask or not as our opportunity for contact with anyone outside of our household was extremely limited. Wearing a mask at that time would possibly have been judged as most likely only likely to introduce a very marginal reduction in risk of transmission - whilst making the changes in behaviour and associated restrictions that were essential a lot harder for all to accept.

I am guessing that there may have been some thinking of that sort around why mask-wearing was not stressed or mandated from the outset. But as we have become more accustomed to the measures we are living under and following - and as transmission rate came down and opportunities for contact with other households increased - the reduction in risk of transmission between households afforded by mask wearing has become significant.
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I agree that mask wearing is very important, and the downside of it, apart from imaginary libertarian nonsense, is negligible, so whats the harm?. There is also a suggestion that immunity may be asserted by mask wearing which may reduce exposure below clinical infectivity, but still enough to stimulate immune responses.
 
https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/artikeldetail/ansteckungsquote-meist-ruecklaeufig-mit-oder-ohne-maske/

Ignoring science backed studies and aerosol transmission.

Lots of antidote evidence over the effectiveness of masks coming though now.

Data charts of countries that have and have not and when they and when they haven't had mask, are interesting to look at.

I'm clearly just chewing the fat/rambling as such, as not interest in emotive responses to the matter. I like science, data, charts and lists.;):LOL:

Ethan, I have read what you posted a number of times over masks, do you have any science based studies that lend strength to your comment over reduced exposure/immune response or just a gut feeling for some people ?
 
DRW said:
https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/artikeldetail/ansteckungsquote-meist-ruecklaeufig-mit-oder-ohne-maske/

Ignoring science backed studies and aerosol transmission.

Lots of antidote evidence over the effectiveness of masks coming though now.

Data charts of countries that have and have not and when they and when they haven't had mask, are interesting to look at.

I'm clearly just chewing the fat/rambling as such, as not interest in emotive responses to the matter. I like science, data, charts and lists.;):LOL:

Ethan, I have read what you posted a number of times over masks, do you have any science based studies that lend strength to your comment over reduced exposure/immune response or just a gut feeling for some people ?
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Variolation was the original rudimentary form of inoculation, and it is possible that controlling exposure to Covid, using masks, could have a similar effect. This is theoretical and has not been formally tested, but there is some observational evidence that suggests it has merit. A recent piece in the New England Journal of Medicine, a highly reputable medical journal, discussed it: NEJM
 
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Ethan said:
Variolation was the original rudimentary form of inoculation, and it is possible that controlling exposure to Covid, using masks, could have a similar effect. This is theoretical and has not be formally tested, but there is some observational evidence that suggests it has merit. A recent piece in the New England Journal of Medicine, a highly reputable medical journal, discussed it: NEJM
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I wondered if you/people were kind of referring to the viral loading aspect.

Thanks for the article, will have a proper read later and look for the details of the interesting cases mentioned. Remember reading about it when I read about vaccine history at one stage and thought WTF, roll that dice, what a way of vaccinated and then forgot about it, doh

Thank again, will help to pass the night later, cheers(y)
 
There have been lots of negative stories around testing so I thought I'd share a more positive one. Colch Jnr II woke up this morning with a cough. Quick call to the school and they said to keep him at home. Colch Jnr I's school also said not to send him in. Went on to the .gov.uk testing site and booked a test at a drive through testing centre 20 miles from home two hours later. Mrs Colch drove him down, straight into the testing centre and test carried out straight away. All very straight forward and organised. Now just got to keep them at home until the results come back, either tomorrow or Friday. Unfortunately for Mrs Colch, I'm offshore so she's got to deal with it on her own.
 
A major hospital trust that I work on has triggered business continuity measures and a change freeze as one or more hospitals in the trust are at capacity and they cannot risk any work we do taking any critical service down...looking at Covid in the trust's area I can only draw the conclusion that Covid in one way or another is the root cause. Not good and worrying.
 
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