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Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

pauldj42 said:
Jacko, read the news mate, people summoned to Court yesterday in the North West, Government ministers and high up Coppers answering questions about it and then Police being told to use common sense!

I am 100% behind the police, just hate the fact they are trying to do some jobs with one hand tied behind their backs!

Those people summoned to Court will also have the Copper in attendance, more wasted time sat in Court!
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I'm finding it difficult to see what your point is regarding Jacko saying about the Courts. IIRC he was responding to a post which said "see if that stands up in court" or similar.
I get that going to court to deal with cases at this time goes against social distancing advice, but , there comes a point in the system where if a fixed pen is issued , but not accepted by the recipient, then the case has to go to a court to be proven, yes?
The alternative is to have a system where1. the money is taken without consent,2. without the case being proved and 3. without the "recipient " being allowed to contest the allegation.
Which might be a bit different from how the law has worked in this Country?

Do you think anyone in the Country will accept that in order to avoid
"more wasted time sat in Court"
 
pauldj42 said:
They don’t know themselves! So how you can claim you do is beyond me.:rolleyes:
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I think Jacko is plod so have to side with him and assume as such he has a better understanding of the laws they been given better than the majority of us.

However perhaps better clarity is needed to be given to both the police and the rest of the country to ensure everything is being adhered to by both parties properly.
 
Wolf said:
I think Jacko is plod so have to side with him and assume as such he has a better understanding of the laws they been given better than the majority of us.

However perhaps better clarity is needed to be given to both the police and the rest of the country to ensure everything is being adhered to by both parties properly.
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The problem with any legislation, but particularly any legislation involving the word "reasonable" in the definition, as I believe this one does, is that it is open to interpretation. Consequently it needs to go through the courts & potentially the appeals process for the law to reach a position where it is black & white.

As we all know from this forum, people's opinions of what is and isn't reasonable varies widely according to the person & the circumstance.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
I'm finding it difficult to see what your point is regarding Jacko saying about the Courts. IIRC he was responding to a post which said "see if that stands up in court" or similar.
I get that going to court to deal with cases at this time goes against social distancing advice, but , there comes a point in the system where if a fixed pen is issued , but not accepted by the recipient, then the case has to go to a court to be proven, yes?
The alternative is to have a system where1. the money is taken without consent,2. without the case being proved and 3. without the "recipient " being allowed to contest the allegation.
Which might be a bit different from how the law has worked in this Country?

Do you think anyone in the Country will accept that in order to avoid
"more wasted time sat in Court"
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These measures are not intended to clog up our Court System with more trivia and bureaucracy, they are designed to deal with the current crisis.

Even on the BBC News at lunchtime they did a piece on it and a Government spokesman admitted different Police Forces/Chiefs are interpreting the new laws in different ways and are asking for guidance so they can put one message across.

Yesterday Derbyshire Police were asking people sat on bench’s to move along as they are meant to be exercising! Seriously, how the hell do you enforce that? 20yr Old looks fit, sat on a bench, fine him, Pregnant Lady sat on same bench, poor lass just having a rest, ignore her. Does the 20yr Old then have a criminal record and get summoned to Court?

As said I’m 100% behind the Police and with caring/living with 3 high risk individuals I fully support the Government and what they are trying to do, but it needs tempering by common sense on all sides.
 
Blue in Munich said:
The problem with any legislation, but particularly any legislation involving the word "reasonable" in the definition, as I believe this one does, is that it is open to interpretation. Consequently it needs to go through the courts & potentially the appeals process for the law to reach a position where it is black & white.

As we all know from this forum, people's opinions of what is and isn't reasonable varies widely according to the person & the circumstance.
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May I also throw the word "essential" into the equation ...
 
Wolf said:
I think Jacko is plod so have to side with him and assume as such he has a better understanding of the laws they been given better than the majority of us.

However perhaps better clarity is needed to be given to both the police and the rest of the country to ensure everything is being adhered to by both parties properly.
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No idea if he’s plod, but it’s the Police themselves complaining about the new system.
 
Think that's summed up nicely and your spot on with what you say about the forum. Like you say in order to lose the ambiguity of the definition they need to remove the"reasonable" part.

The problem is with our justice system you will never remove the needless court appearance anyway even with finesnas there will be so many that don't make payment's that they escalate to being summoned to court to be made to pay them. It is just not possible to take that away as is so prevalent with the amount of fixed penalty driving fines that end up in court.
 
pauldj42 said:
No idea if he’s plod, but it’s the Police themselves complaining about the new system.
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That's why we all need better clarity on the laws themselves including the plod but as above you won't ever take courts out of it because not everyone will pay penalties whether through ignorance, inability to afford to or just believe they're above the law.

I feel for the police in all this because even if they get better clarity they will ultimately been seen by many as the bad guys of all this instead of people acknowledging their own personal part to play to make the jobs of the old bill easier
 
Wolf said:
That's why we all need better clarity on the laws themselves including the plod but as above you won't ever take courts out of it because not everyone will pay penalties whether through ignorance, inability to afford to or just believe they're above the law.

I feel for the police in all this because even if they get better clarity they will ultimately been seen by many as the bad guys of all this instead of people acknowledging their own personal part to play to make the jobs of the old bill easier
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That I do, unfortunately, lay some of the responsibility on the Government and the guidelines they put out and the different answers given by different ministers, ie, the question, “How long can I exercise for?”
 
Blue in Munich said:
Listening to Jeremy Vine & some of the things that are supposed to protect us against Corona Virus that have been circulated via the internet simply beggar belief. Even if we get past this I have concerns for the human race, particularly those prepared to come onto national radio live & advertise their own stupidity. :oops::rolleyes:
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Someone here was arrested and faces prosecution for posting false information online likely to mislead the public
 
Reading this thread over the last few days and the listening to the media I can quite see why the Aussies call us "Whinging Poms".

There is a serious infection for which there is no known cure impacting the world and that includes us in the UK. Epidemics have been heavily researched and simulations demonstrate how these thing will probably progress through the population - the best simulation are pretty darn good, that is disquieting .

In the absence of a cure all that can be done is to mitigate the infection rate and and apply medical intervention to control symptoms where possible. Since there are a finite level of resources actions will always lag behind the rate of infection and fatalities by 2 or 3 weeks - that is the real world.

So far the medical science suggests that a period of incubation and duration of the illness may be 2 to 3 weeks - but the novel nature means that could be longer if the antibodies are not the same as in SARS and previous virus infections

The UK wants to delay the infection spread by restricting person to person interaction informed by the knowledge that the risk is minimised by avoiding physical transmission and 'droplet projection' (touching and sneezing) hence sanitising and separation.

This MIGHT also reduce the total number of suffers but that's not a guarantee the death rate will be low; primarily it will 'spread' and flatten the curve and thereby keep numbers to a manageable level of the NHS capacity.

The new COVID 19 laws of a couple of weeks ago give system powers to enforce separation but the Police walk a tightrope of the degree of 'force' and the government risk loosing public support if the isolation period goes for too long but flattening the 'curve' adds to the elapse time and contradicts what people want or will accept.

Unfortunately the media report idiotic behaviour on both sides because it makes news; the reality is these are very, very small numbers compared to the 66 million living in the UK of which about 600,000 die each year. That means about 20,000 people died in the last months.

IMO, from simulations I've assisted in building the past, the nature of this epidemic and the 2/3 week rolling isolation needed means we will be in some form of restricted behaviour for 6 to 8 months - so try and relax there's a while to go without jumping all over each other.
 
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Wolf said:
I think Jacko is plod so have to side with him and assume as such he has a better understanding of the laws they been given better than the majority of us.

However perhaps better clarity is needed to be given to both the police and the rest of the country to ensure everything is being adhered to by both parties properly.
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he is indeed
 
Blue in Munich said:
Listening to Jeremy Vine & some of the things that are supposed to protect us against Corona Virus that have been circulated via the internet simply beggar belief. Even if we get past this I have concerns for the human race, particularly those prepared to come onto national radio live & advertise their own stupidity. :oops::rolleyes:
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Serves you right for listening to Jeremy Vine, swallow my pride and go to Radio 1 1200-1400. Rant radio at its greatest, becoming to popular with too many believing what they hear unfortunately.
 
Wolf said:
I think Jacko is plod so have to side with him and assume as such he has a better understanding of the laws they been given better than the majority of us.

However perhaps better clarity is needed to be given to both the police and the rest of the country to ensure everything is being adhered to by both parties properly.
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Not saying it's the case here (and I'm pretty certain the Police will have ben briefed on the relevant laws. but 'knowledge of' and 'understanding of' are not the same thing. It's rulings in courts that establish 'clarity'! And that principle must never be altered!

Having said that, there are still many examples of 'daftness' visible from my windo and/or at work - in spite of major changes to procedures!
 
Old Skier said:
Serves you right for listening to Jeremy Vine, swallow my pride and go to Radio 1 1200-1400. Rant radio at its greatest, becoming to popular with too many believing what they hear unfortunately.
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We have been turning him off in favour of working our way through the CD collection, but wanted to hear the police response & just carried on with it today. How some of these people remember to breathe is a mystery, we were almost crying with laughter at times.
 
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