Charges against Lance Armstrong?

Surely the worst thing for Lance if the 7 titles are taken away is,he goes from legend
to obscurity.
I believe if he was innocent he woud fight,as hes done all his life.
I also believe he is doing it to protect others,because if it is true hes a drug cheat,many others knew.
When i was watching him,and ive watched all his Tour De France victorys,was the thrill it gave me.
Unbelievable athelete.
Cycling has finally got a champion in Bradley,and Mark Cavendish we can be proud of.
I was watching Contador yesterday and i couldnt help myself but call him a cheat.
If and i mean if,LA was a cheat then im gutted,but you have to hold your hands up and say he cheated.
 
I think LA has calculated that he would rather see this end now without full hearings and with him being able to deny doping. Then he can exist as a wronged hero rather than a convicted doper. In time, the public will cool on the issue and he can continue to deny the charges and blame the system for miscarriages of justice.

FWIW, I think the general consensus was that they were all at it back then. Some were better at dodging the tests, or perhaps knowing when 'random' tests were going to happen.
 
Well the witch hunt is over.
I have never believed LA was using drugs and, until he admits it or there is definetive proof, will never believe he's used drugs to win anything. The USADA has had an agenda against Armstrong for years and years. I also think he's had enough of the crap they have thrown at him for the best part of a decade. The only drug users are the dopers that have had it in for him from the USADA.
If this is the case then anyone winning any sporting event will have it devalued with the constant threat of having a title taken away from them.
 
Andy808 said:
Well the witch hunt is over.
I have never believed LA was using drugs and, until he admits it or there is definetive proof, will never believe he's used drugs to win anything. The USADA has had an agenda against Armstrong for years and years. I also think he's had enough of the crap they have thrown at him for the best part of a decade. The only drug users are the dopers that have had it in for him from the USADA.
If this is the case then anyone winning any sporting event will have it devalued with the constant threat of having a title taken away from them.
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And that is precisely the effect I referred to above that LA was looking for by this act.
 
Ethan said:
And that is precisely the effect I referred to above that LA was looking for by this act.
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Agree too.

There is the scenario that LA's action leaves USADA on its own. It now has to formally justify its action to LA, WADA and the UCI in writing. If the UCI feels there isn't sufficient evidence then it may choose to ignore the USADA finding, forcing USADA to expose themselves further. It could be that their evidence falls flat, leaving them totally isolated and embarrassed. Just a thought.
 
Well confirmed in the press this morning that all 7 of his Tour titles have been stripped from him by USADA.

Also states that UCI do not back the decision to do so, as they have yet to be provided proof of LA's guilt. Also stated Tour officials are yet to back the decision based on USADA irrefutable proof.

Given a lifetime ban also, ironic considering he's retired.

Not sure what to make of it, I can't say I back USADA's decision, simply he hasn't been proved guilty before stripping the titles.

So for me LA remains a n iconic sporting legend until the proof is put out for us all to see. Only then will I say fair enough he's a cheat and take him off that legendary pedestal that he resides on beside the likes of Ali, Senna, Schumacher, Pele et al.
 
Fader said:
Well confirmed in the press this morning that all 7 of his Tour titles have been stripped from him by USADA.

Also states that UCI do not back the decision to do so, as they have yet to be provided proof of LA's guilt. Also stated Tour officials are yet to back the decision based on USADA irrefutable proof.
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They are waiting for the USADA to provided them with the evidence on which they have based their decision on.

Fader said:
Given a lifetime ban also, ironic considering he's retired.
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He was hoping to return to competing in trathlons and this will not be possible now.

Fader said:
Not sure what to make of it, I can't say I back USADA's decision, simply he hasn't been proved guilty before stripping the titles.
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He has taken the decision not to defend himself against the charges made by the USADA who believe they have sufficient evidence to prove drug abuse. He has denied himself the right to defend his reputation against these charges and left the USADA no other alternative but to find him guilty and to strip him of his titles. Only time will tell if the ICU, after seeing the evidence, will agree with the USADA.

Fader said:
So for me LA remains a n iconic sporting legend until the proof is put out for us all to see. Only then will I say fair enough he's a cheat and take him off that legendary pedestal that he resides on beside the likes of Ali, Senna, Schumacher, Pele et al.
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I have heard him referred to as having a 'marmite' personality, you either like him or you don't. The general opinion by most commentators is that he has made a calculated decision as those who support him will always believe he was clean and those who don't will point out all the circumstantial evidence against him and the statements from his former team mates.
 
Who cares the guy won 7 tour de France titles back to back. Give me crack, speed and heroin and I'm still not going to make its through the first leg.

I think the question should be asked...how much of an advantage did he get from whatever he did? Was it more than his competitors at the time?

That's like taking ferraris titles because now, the rules say we use smaller engines, and they used bigger ones for their wins.

Absolutely rediculous!

Still a legend

"Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever,"
 
Also one of the major factors is IF he is guilty, which is unproven, the majority of those that finished high up on the tours he won, have been found guilty of doping. So IF he is guilty then all he did was beat a bunch of other cheats..

Agree that he is still a Legend and always will be, USADA can claim his guilt based on plea bargains and his desire to stop fighting them, but the fact remains he never failed a drugs test and thats all the proof thats needed.
 
Snelly said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/94...-charges-feels-like-a-shocking-surrender.html

A good article today on this subject.

My opinion is that if you think that LA is walking away from fighting these charges for any other reason than he knows for a fact that he will lose and be totally discredited then you are very naive indeed.

He cheated. They have him bang to rights and he is backing down to avoid the final coup de grace.
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Bang to rights would mean proving he failed a drugs test, thus meaning irrefutable evidence not just the words of others.
 
Unfortunately as in all such instances - it's all myths and legends - the legend is found out to be a myth, but despite being so is still held up my many as a legend (see also thread on Rangers (IA) 1996-2012 for another more recent example of the phenomenon)
 
DappaDonDave said:
I think the question should be asked...how much of an advantage did he get from whatever he did? Was it more than his competitors at the time?
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If there was 1 competitor who was "clean" then he's gained an advantage and cheated.

By not challenging the accusations he's implying guilt - whether he's guilty or not............
 
It may be that he's guilty, it maybe that like he says he's tired of fighting a system which is going to go ahead and hold him as guilty regardless of the fact that the US Judicial system did agree that USADA were wrong to pursue this avenue without irrefutable proof, even though they refused to get involved as it's not a legal case.

It could also be that regardless of the fact it is merely based on the word of others that mud sticks regardless of guilt/innocence.

My own view is that that of the above in bold, if evidence is found to prove he is guilty then i'd happily call the man a cheat. Though it's hard to look down on someone with his achievements considering the rest of the fields were at it to.

At the end of the day he alone knows his reasons for doing this, and if thats because he is guilty then better this way than prolong the agony, but if he is innocent then USADA are no more than a group of bully boys on a witch hunt.

In truth will we ever know the real reasoning behind it, No we won't because despite them basing their evidence on the plea of others, no-one can argue with the fact LA never failed a drugs test. So maybe they need to look at the testing elements they use.
 
Fader said:
In truth will we ever know the real reasoning behind it, No we won't because despite them basing their evidence on the plea of others, no-one can argue with the fact LA never failed a drugs test. So maybe they need to look at the testing elements they use.
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We'll never know because LA won't defend against the charges.........Why?

If he has nothing to hide then he has his name to clear and reputation to preserve.
If he doesn't defend he's implying guilt.

Doesn't he care about his reputation..?
 
Fader said:
Also one of the major factors is IF he is guilty, which is unproven, the majority of those that finished high up on the tours he won, have been found guilty of doping. So IF he is guilty then all he did was beat a bunch of other cheats..

Agree that he is still a Legend and always will be, USADA can claim his guilt based on plea bargains and his desire to stop fighting them, but the fact remains he never failed a drugs test and thats all the proof thats needed.
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So which way do you want it - he was a cheat but so was everyone else, or he wasn't a cheat at all? Seems like you are in denial, as well as a state of confusion.

There is no way that LA would have stopped this fight unless he knew it was going to turn out worse for him. There is also obviously more to it than the fact that he never failed a drugs test, if indeed that is the case. Perhaps more modern techniques have cast a different light on that, or evidence of tampering or masking have emerged, or there was something dodgy about the scheduling of tests. And if he has been observed providing team mates with drugs or blocking agents, then he is just as guilty. It is laughable to simply brush aside 'the word of others'. That is the basis of the lgal system, and unless you are some sort of paranoid conspiracy nut, then witness statements need to be considered.

The legend is shattered now, either way. Either he is a cheat or he doesn't have what it takes to stand up for his reputation and that of the sport he claims to love.
 
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Snelly said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/94...-charges-feels-like-a-shocking-surrender.html

A good article today on this subject.

My opinion is that if you think that LA is walking away from fighting these charges for any other reason than he knows for a fact that he will lose and be totally discredited then you are very naive indeed.

He cheated. They have him bang to rights and he is backing down to avoid the final coup de grace.
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Eh? Where is the evidence he cheated? Nothing has come to light.

However, if the evidence in the future categorically proves he cheated, then I will say he's a cheat. But no one can say he cheated before that time.
 
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I'm not in denial at all. Far from it, i've said if it's proven then fine i'll call him a cheat which is what he will be proven to be and until then i'm open minded about it.

Of course there is more to in than he never failed a drug test but the fact is this is based on the words and pleas of others not on medical evidence.

So maybe his refusal to defend himself is a way of admitting his guilt, but as stated before I will hold my judgement until everything is out in the open.

Plus what he's achieved will always be a legend in my opinion.
 
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