Brexit - The negotiations.

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In time the truth will out about why UK did not take up the EU offer to join their Covid-19 procurement programme.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...o-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials

 

[drdel]

It’s interesting how for brexit the government pressed on, ignoring the majority of experts and calling it fear mongering.

Now with Covid-19 it’s that we should trust the majority of experts...

Wrong: Brexit was a qualitative policy lead by a referendum decision informed by 'expert' opinion.

Epidemics and contagion are a well researched science backed by medical, mathematical and biological expertise so its primarily quantitative knowledge driving policy.

 

[drdel]

Yes we have left - did so on Jan 31 at 23:00!

And Yes we are in the 'post Brexit negotiation period'. It's this process that any proposed delay/extension would be abot delay.

I agree: the UK/EU any future deal can be managed by Government and EU in parallel - it is not sucking up the NHS related resources - extensions will serve no useful purpose as all the EU is concerned with is preventing the UK being successful and contagion leading to the r27 getting itchy feet while charging us and additional bunch of money for the process.

 

[Mudball]

I agree: the UK/EU any future deal can be managed by Government and EU in parallel - it is not sucking up the NHS related resources - extensions will serve no useful purpose as all the EU is concerned with is preventing the UK being successful and contagion leading to the r27 getting itchy feet while charging us and additional bunch of money for the process.

I am bit surprised someone wants to think about Brexit negotiation at this time. It is not just the NHS resources but all the ministries and the mandarins are needed for this. Surely their time is better used to support the NHS that is supporting the whole of the UK rather than a Brexit that was supported by 50%.

We are all leavers now and I dont care if the rEU (which has its own problems) want us in or out. I am more concerned around getting enough ventilators on the ground rather than finding (in Gove's words) - we can procure this as an independent country. That was a bit like Trump's tweet which said that 8m people tuned in to watch the White House briefing and this was more than the last season of Bachelors - WTF.

In other reports, No 10 says that Negotiations are still on over telephone (really) and Priti 'throw them out' Patel just extended visas for about 3000 NHS staff (ah the irony).

 

[drdel]

Italy is getting pretty vocal about the EU's recent performance and poor debt planning.

I see Barnier is complaining that the UK team is only focusing moving forward on things that matter to the UK and not getting into to other areas such a 'levelling'. He is demanding an extension which will see the UK hit with a large lump payment . Pot calling kettle occurs to me.

He does not mention that if the UK has not completely left by 31st Dec. we could also be expected to share in the EU's liability for its Convid19 rescue debt.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Strewth, don't remind us that we have the double economic clanger of CoVid19 and Brexit.
It was going to be tough enough just dealing with one of them.
Ease off the BrirNat pedal for the time being...…….. please.

 

[Foxholer]

Italy is getting pretty vocal about the EU's recent performance and poor debt planning.

I see Barnier is complaining that the UK team is only focusing moving forward on things that matter to the UK and not getting into to other areas such a 'levelling'. He is demanding an extension which will see the UK hit with a large lump payment . Pot calling kettle occurs to me.

He does not mention that if the UK has not completely left by 31st Dec. we could also be expected to share in the EU's liability for its Convid19 rescue debt.

It's up to UK's negotiators to sort that 'misconception' out! With some stern words on that subject - the actual reason for leaving the EU in the first place - from BoJo and Parliament!

Italy is hardly in a position to criticise anyone (except perhaps Greece!) regarding 'debt planning'!

 

[drdel]

Strewth, don't remind us that we have the double economic clanger of CoVid19 and Brexit.
It was going to be tough enough just dealing with one of them.
Ease off the BrirNat pedal for the time being...…….. please.

Reading the thread is not compulsory

Convid 19 does not mean the world stops. If we want to rebuild our lives and have jobs to go back to rather than just waiting around the negotiations must proceed

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Reading the thread is not compulsory

Convid 19 does not mean the world stops. If we want to rebuild our lives and have jobs to go back to rather than just waiting around the negotiations must proceed

They can certainly proceed - but we can also decide whether or not the current end date remains appropriate and sensible given we don’t know the state our economy and business will be in second half of this year when we have been told we will make a deal/no deal decision in July.

Can you imagine business being told in ten weeks time that have to prepare for a No Deal end December departure?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

They can certainly proceed - but we can also decide whether or not the current end date remains appropriate and sensible given we don’t know the state our economy and business will be in second half of this year when we have been told we will make a deal/no deal decision in July.

Can you imagine business being told in ten weeks time that have to prepare for a No Deal end December departure?

To be honest, business is so disrupted, so up in the air right now, then why not? We are having to readjust everything to deal with the lockdown so better to throw Brexit into the mix now and deal with it together than get through this, level out and then have Brexit again in 18 months.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

To be honest, business is so disrupted, so up in the air right now, then why not? We are having to readjust everything to deal with the lockdown so better to throw Brexit into the mix now and deal with it together than get through this, level out and then have Brexit again in 18 months.

Perhaps - though ‘kicking someone when they are down’ does rather come to mind. Adding no deal prep into the mix could be what tips some business over the edge. Whatever. I am sure Johnson will have the best interests of business in mind when he decides one way or the other.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Perhaps - though ‘kicking someone when they are down’ does rather come to mind. Adding no deal prep into the mix could be what tips some business over the edge. Whatever. I am sure Johnson will have the best interests of business in mind when he decides one way or the other.

You can look at it both ways. In another analogy, if you are having major work done to your house, is that not also the best time to get it rewired, change the pipes? Deal with all of the disruption in one go rather than spreading it out.

Brexit will hurt my company but it is going to happen so I'd rather it happened and we got it over with as quickly as possible. Don't drag it on like the first part of the process.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You can look at it both ways. In another analogy, if you are having major work done to your house, is that not also the best time to get it rewired, change the pipes? Deal with all of the disruption in one go rather than spreading it out.

Brexit will hurt my company but it is going to happen so I'd rather it happened and we got it over with as quickly as possible. Don't drag it on like the first part of the process.

Sensible thinking but only if you have money in the bank to pay for the work.
If you borrow loads of money that you know you will really struggle to pay back would you not then be in danger of losing the house as you go bankrupt.

 

[Hobbit]

They can certainly proceed - but we can also decide whether or not the current end date remains appropriate and sensible given we don’t know the state our economy and business will be in second half of this year when we have been told we will make a deal/no deal decision in July.

Can you imagine business being told in ten weeks time that have to prepare for a No Deal end December departure?

Businesses have known for a very long time that there's been a possibility of No Deal. If it comes as a shock to them in 10 weeks time they're pretty shoddy business owners/managers. It could be argued that business owners have time on their hands at present and can direct their staff towards preparation rather than the day-2-day business.

I'd argue for an extension but only for a few months. However, the new EU budget comes in on Jan 1st, with a proposed very large increase. Add to that the UK would also be liable for a proportion of the COVID debt the EU has ran up, even though it hasn't benefited from it. I can see why the UK wants to stick to the Dec 31st deadline, and it certainly seems to focus Barnier's attention... is that a bad thing?

As for continued, unfettered access to fishing rights and level playing field in terms of competition that barnier keeps arguing for, I've not seen one single thing offered in return. At present, I'm inclined to say stuff 'em.

 

[drdel]

Although the virus has caused disruption and suffering sometimes it provides the best opportunity for counter cyclical investment. Callous may be but international economics and business competition are not charities?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Sensible thinking but only if you have money in the bank to pay for the work.
If you borrow loads of money that you know you will really struggle to pay back would you not then be in danger of losing the house as you go bankrupt.

You can't make decisions or policies taking into account bad decision makers. I'm not sure I get your example as the answer to it is too obvious.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Although the virus has caused disruption and suffering sometimes it provides the best opportunity for counter cyclical investment. Callous may be but international economics and business competition are not charities?

Yes indeed - and in support of your position I might suggest that many, if not the majority (I do not know the figures) of owners of SMEs voted to leave the EU and so they will reap what they have sown.

I might also suggest though, that they would have sown in the expectation of fair and unexceptional weather between sowing and harvesting. And with the possibility of it being announced in July that we will be leaving on a No Deal basis - with the circumstances for preparing to leave on that basis being very difficult...

Well - they, and the UK as a whole, will indeed reap what we have sown.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Yes indeed - and in support of your position I might suggest that many, if not the majority (I do not know the figures) of owners of SMEs voted to leave the EU and so they will reap what they have sown.

I might also suggest though, that they would have sown in the expectation of fair and unexceptional weather between sowing and harvesting. And with possibility of it being announced in July that we will be leaving on a No Deal basis - with the circumstances for preparing to leave on that basis being very difficult.

Well - as a country we will reap what we have sown.

I'd love to see the basis for your comment about SME's voting in the majority to leave? Every conversation I've had, every chamber of Commerce meeting I've been to suggests the exact opposite.

Disappointed you keep using the reap what you sow phrasing. The suggestion of it is not pleasant imo. It has undertones to it.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'd love to see the basis for your comment about SME's voting in the majority to leave? Every conversation I've had, every chamber of Commerce meeting I've been to suggests the exact opposite.

Disappointed you keep using the reap what you sow phrasing. The suggestion of it is not pleasant imo. It has undertones to it.

That's right, I wasn't aware of a SME box on the ballot paper.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd love to see the basis for your comment about SME's voting in the majority to leave? Every conversation I've had, every chamber of Commerce meeting I've been to suggests the exact opposite.

Disappointed you keep using the reap what you sow phrasing. The suggestion of it is not pleasant imo. It has undertones to it.

None - and I did say that...I said many if not the majority...and in fact my sympathy is with all SMEs struggling with the idea of prepping for a no deal exit - not just those that did not wish to leave.

So...if the majority of SMEs voted to remain in the EU, should the government not be taking their situation in the current very difficult circumstances into consideration? Or do Johnsons words about business still hold...?