Brexit - The negotiations.

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spongebob59

spongebob59

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Thought I'd start a new thread.

Thoughts of Andrew Neil to kick off :

Now studied both the UK and the EU negotiating positions. They are on different planets. There will be a huge bust up by Spring. Whether it can be put together again unclear. I reckon no higher than 50:50. Johnson government will not agree to continued alignment with EU rules.

It shows EU once said, given UK’s red lines, only Canada-style free trade deal was possible. UK has proposed Canada-style free trade deal. Now EU says that’s not possible without full alignment to EU rules (against UK red lines). It’s pretty easy to understand.
 
EU is only interested in control, controlling what the UK(and others) does. One result(with other goals) of this is trying to ensure no other country wishes to leave the great union of Europe.

You can twist it other ways, but the truth is obvious, control is good.;)
 
So were out but the EU is adamant we’re not kinda out. ? Heard summat the other day where I think it was Barnier who said
“ UK cannot have a Canada style trade deal due to the close proximity of the UK to the EU”. Eh, what’s that all about. Need a dustbin sized popcorn for this one.
 
It has been quite nice to have a spell without poilticians from various countries, including our own, posturing for domestic markets but sad to see them kicking off again. Lock them in a room and don't let them out until a deal is struck. Don't let them make statements, speak to the press etc. Ah well, it was a nice thought. The merry go round starts again, business gets nervous...............
 
Not even gonna pretend to know what’s best for the EU and the UK. But surely it’s better for both sides to have some kind of deal. Should the EU not agree to a Canada style deal. Would Boris say “shove it”. Where would that leave the UK.A WTO style trade agreement.
I do think this though, the more the EU and the UK knob about, trade and industry in both the UK and the EU will suffer. And that benefits no one.
 
Seems like the main objection the EU have to the UK having a similar trading relationship to that of Canada and Japan is that we are closer. Why is this relevant, the countries we will want to trade with outside the EU are further away! It just has to be that the EU want to control the way the UK trade with the rest of the World and this cannot be right.

It will be interesting to read on this thread how people can defend the EU's position.
 
Tashyboy said:
Not even gonna pretend to know what’s best for the EU and the UK. But surely it’s better for both sides to have some kind of deal. Should the EU not agree to a Canada style deal. Would Boris say “shove it”. Where would that leave the UK.A WTO style trade agreement.
I do think this though, the more the EU and the UK knob about, trade and industry in both the UK and the EU will suffer. And that benefits no one.
Click to expand...
So Tashy, what do you suggest? Would you prefer the UK as an independent country to have it's laws and trading rules dictated by the EU, surely its best the UK and EU have a tariff and quota free arrangement and both trade with other countries as they see fit.
 
Hopefully the other Brexit threads will now be locked.
Let’s be honest, we all knew the 31st Jan was purely 1 step along the path, there will be loads of blustering from both sides, both will blame each other, both will claim the moral high ground etc

Why don’t we simply ignore it all and see what deal we get for leaving on 31st Dec, it will only be 1 of 2 deals:
No Deal.
A Deal.

Really don’t get the bitching and moaning from forum members on this one. 10 months to go, have faith.(y)
 
Tashyboy said:
So were out but the EU is adamant we’re not kinda out. ? Heard summat the other day where I think it was Barnier who said
“ UK cannot have a Canada style trade deal due to the close proximity of the UK to the EU”. Eh, what’s that all about. Need a dustbin sized popcorn for this one.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that he's saying, because we are in close proximity to the EU geographically we are more able to undercut the EU on prices to customers in Europe by reducing quality, dumping etc etc so (ha ha) they want a level playing field agreement so that we are less able to be unfairly competitive.

All of which say "leave on WTO" then let them see what we really can do ??
 
Tashyboy said:
So were out but the EU is adamant we’re not kinda out. ? Heard summat the other day where I think it was Barnier who said
“ UK cannot have a Canada style trade deal due to the close proximity of the UK to the EU”. Eh, what’s that all about. Need a dustbin sized popcorn for this one.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking this is simply due to the volume, value, nature and scope of the trade between UK and the EU being very significantly different and greater than that between Canada and the EU. And because of that and our immediate proximity to the EU - the UK presents a very significant risk of high impact on EU27 economies if we have the 'same' deal as Canada. And so quite sensibly and understandably the EU will want to mitigate that risk.

It's seems to me to be rather similar to what any business would do if partnering with another in specific markets or for specific customers, whilst they remained competitors in others. We would want to protect existing markets we have that are outside the scope of our partnership from the avaricious eyes of our partner/competitor. And so we'd be very carefully keeping technologies, products, market analysis and such like that address these 'out of scope' markets away from our partner and so we would not give them the same access as we would to that of ours which is in scope of our partnership.

Seems to me that that is all that the EU is going to do - as it was always going to do.
 
I work for the customs clearance agent in Kent, who also happen to be the least proactive in the industry....

Even we have now taken extra staff on and bought a second office which is being fitted next week. If our dinosaur of an owner (who regularly meets the brexit team) has decided to actually spend money preparing, then I think is more 60/40 for no deal.
 
SocketRocket said:
So Tashy, what do you suggest? Would you prefer the UK as an independent country to have it's laws and trading rules dictated by the EU, surely its best the UK and EU have a tariff and quota free arrangement and both trade with other countries as they see fit.
Click to expand...

My first sentence says it all, not got a clue. Totally agree with your suggestions re free trade etc, but don’t think the EU see it that way.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I'm thinking this is simply due to the volume, value, nature and scope of the trade between UK and the EU being very significantly different and greater than that between Canada and the EU. And because of that and our immediate proximity to the EU - the UK presents a very significant risk of high impact on EU27 economies if we have the 'same' deal as Canada. And so quite sensibly and understandably the EU will want to mitigate that risk.

It's seems to me to be rather similar to what any business would do if partnering with another in specific markets or for specific customers, whilst they remained competitors in others. We would want to protect existing markets we have that are outside the scope of our partnership from the avaricious eyes of our partner/competitor. And so we'd be very carefully keeping technologies, products, market analysis and such like that address these 'out of scope' markets away from our partner and so we would not give them the same access as we would to that of ours which is in scope of our partnership.

Seems to me that that is all that the EU is going to do - as it was always going to do.
Click to expand...

But its not a partnership is it, we have just ceased to be a partner.

Can you imagine a UK company saying it insists that other companies in their district must follow their price and staff conditions of employment policy otherwise they wont do any business with them.
 
Damn either side trying to get their own way.:rolleyes:

There are five steps to the negotiation process, which are:
  • Preparation and planning.
  • Definition of ground rules.
  • Clarification and justification.
  • Bargaining and problem solving.
  • Closure and implementation.
 
pauldj42 said:
Damn either side trying to get their own way.:rolleyes:

There are five steps to the negotiation process, which are:
  • Preparation and planning.
  • Definition of ground rules.
  • Clarification and justification.
  • Bargaining and problem solving.
  • Closure and implementation.
Click to expand...
You missed the first one:

  • Grandstanding and Sabre Rattling
 
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