Are our bridges unusual?

[chrisd]

It would appear that for bounce games that our bridges are deemed "immovable obstructions" but when playing competitions they are deemed to be "a part of the hazard" .


1 .. Is this normal?

2 .. in bounce games you can ground your club and in competitions you can't?

Comments please

 

[backwoodsman]

I'd suggest it's not normal - surely it would lead to confusion.

And by what means are they deemed different ? The RoG would dictate the comp scenario - so do you have a local rule. And if a local rule, why this not applicable to comp's?

 

[Colin L]

A bridge is by definition an obstruction from which you can get relief except you cannot get relief from an obstruction in a water hazard. So any part of the bridge that is within the margins of a water hazard is in that hazard and you do not get relief if your ball lies on it. If you elect to play the ball as it lies you can ground your club on the obstruction or touch it with your backswing.

That's for any game of golf! If you are saying you are playing some sort of casual rule in bounce games that allows you relief from a bridge in a hazard that's up to you, but your course cannot have a local rule to that effect.

 

[chrisd]

A bridge is by definition an obstruction from which you can get relief except you cannot get relief from an obstruction in a water hazard. So any part of the bridge that is within the margins of a water hazard is in that hazard and you do not get relief if your ball lies on it. If you elect to play the ball as it lies you can ground your club on the obstruction or touch it with your backswing.

That's for any game of golf! If you are saying you are playing some sort of casual rule in bounce games that allows you relief from a bridge in a hazard that's up to you, but your course cannot have a local rule to that effect.

What I am saying Colin is that I was told yesterday, and shown a sheet of competition rules that I have never seen before, that say, in effect, that bridges are deemed immovable objects under normal play but there is a competition rule that says that bridges are considered part of the hazard.

That would suggest to me that in non competition rounds you would/could have relief from a bridge and also be able to ground your club if you chose to play the ball as it lies. If, in competition, bridges were deemed "part of the hazard" then the question is, can you ground your club?

The final question is, can this change of designation, dependant on whether or not the game is in a competition or not, be allowed ?

 

[Colin L]

Could you maybe let us see the exact wording of the competition rules? i'm not making much sense of it at all. I just don't get the distinction that seems to be being made between a bridge being an immovable obstruction in casual play and part of a hazard in competition. A bridge is an immovable obstruction always, whether in casual play or in competition and it doesn't change its status when it is in a hazard - it is still an obstruction. The only difference is that you do not get relief from any part of it that is in a water hazard whether in casual or competition play. See Rule 24-2b
[h=4]b. Relief[/h]

Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction as follows:


​

Your Committee cannot change any of that because it is not allowed to waive any of the Rules of Golf (Rule 33-1)

But let us see what the wording actually is. Maybe that will clear my confusion a to what is intended. Or maybe not.

 

[chrisd]

Could you maybe let us see the exact wording of the competition rules? i'm not making much sense of it at all. I just don't get the distinction that seems to be being made between a bridge being an immovable obstruction in casual play and part of a hazard in competition. A bridge is an immovable obstruction always, whether in casual play or in competition and it doesn't change its status when it is in a hazard - it is still an obstruction. The only difference is that you do not get relief from any part of it that is in a water hazard whether in casual or competition play. See Rule 24-2b
b. Relief

Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction as follows:


​

Your Committee cannot change any of that because it is not allowed to waive any of the Rules of Golf (Rule 33-1)

But let us see what the wording actually is. Maybe that will clear my confusion a to what is intended. Or maybe not.

I will try and get the wording Colin.

The discussion yesterday just centered on grounding the club. I said that you could ground the club on a bridge as it's an immovable object and was "corrected" by someone saying that in competition it is deemed a part of the hazard, therefore not allowing the club to be grounded. I am still not sure if there is any difference in reality and that you can ground your club either way.

I am stll as confused as you as to the point of the competition rule

 

[Twire]

I will try and get the wording Colin.

The discussion yesterday just centered on grounding the club. I said that you could ground the club on a bridge as it's an immovable object and was "corrected" by someone saying that in competition it is deemed a part of the hazard, therefore not allowing the club to be grounded. I am still not sure if there is any difference in reality and that you can ground your club either way.

I am stll as confused as you as to the point of the competition rule

Decisions 13-4/30

Question:-

A players ball lies on a bridge over a water hazard within the margins of the hazard when extended upwards. May the player ground his club?

Answer:-

Yes. A bridge is an obstruction. In a hazard, the club may touch an obstruction at address or in the backward movement for the stroke- see note under rule 13-4. Touching the bridge prior to address is also permissible, since an obstruction in a water hazard is not "ground in the hazard".

This applies even if the bridge has been declared an integral part of the course.

 

[chrisd]

Decisions 13-4/30

Question:-

A players ball lies on a bridge over a water hazard within the margins of the hazard when extended upwards. May the player ground his club?

Answer:-

Yes. A bridge is an obstruction. In a hazard, the club may touch an obstruction at address or in the backward movement for the stroke- see note under rule 13-4. Touching the bridge prior to address is also permissible, since an obstruction in a water hazard is not "ground in the hazard".

This applies even if the bridge has been declared an integral part of the course.

Thanks Twire, you have confirmed exactly what I always understood and leaves me even more baffled as to why they have had a competition rule that it's meaning and interpretation is a complete mystery to me!

 

[Colin L]

..... So any part of the bridge that is within the margins of a water hazard is in that hazard and you do not get relief if your ball lies on it. If you elect to play the ball as it lies you can ground your club on the obstruction or touch it with your backswing.

I guess you missed in that in post #3

 

[chrisd]

I have just found a new set of competition rules which state that "The course will be marked to ensure that all bridges are within a hazard".


That does, as far as I am concerned mean that they are still immovable obstructions and all the rules as detailed here apply.

Thanks for everyones comments and help