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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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chrisd said:
Trump has today confirmed that he is not interested in buying any part of the NHS even if it were handed to the US on a silver platter
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really...that doesn't sound much like 'America First'. But since Matt Hancock seems to believe Trump on this who am I to sceptically scoff...
 
chrisd said:
The document IS real but it is the scope document from meetings back in Mrs May premiership where negotiators record what is said at the meetings (minutes). The US are bound to ask about the possibility of supplying drugs as part of a trade deal but Labour are trying to spin the document to be the foundation of a deal which Boris has been party to which us simply not the case
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That may well be the case. Though I suspect that it will be the foundations for something.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
That may well be the case. Though I suspect that it will be the foundations for something.
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The idea of a scoping out doc is to save the real negotiators wasting loads of time going through a load of meetings.

The piece in it about extending drugs patents sparked with me. Currently, there will be specific drugs that are only produced by one manufacturer - the new Cystic Fibrosis drugs spring to mind. Once the patent has expired, any manufacturer will be able to produce them, and usually cheaper.

Extending the patent with the NHS is basically hiding the fact they want the US Pharma company to be preferred supplier at the original price for a certain period of time. Its not unusual for a company to ask for a preferred supplier status like this on the back of offering something in return, e.g. another drug for something completely different at a knock down price. It can be a win-win for both sides but it does taking some managing.

Bear in mind NHS Procurement, and various Trusts independently, have preferred supplier status with hundreds of suppliers already. Its a bit of a non-story in terms market access but politically, spun well, it is gravy to Labour.
 
Hobbit said:
The idea of a scoping out doc is to save the real negotiators wasting loads of time going through a load of meetings.

The piece in it about extending drugs patents sparked with me. Currently, there will be specific drugs that are only produced by one manufacturer - the new Cystic Fibrosis drugs spring to mind. Once the patent has expired, any manufacturer will be able to produce them, and usually cheaper.

Extending the patent with the NHS is basically hiding the fact they want the US Pharma company to be preferred supplier at the original price for a certain period of time. Its not unusual for a company to ask for a preferred supplier status like this on the back of offering something in return, e.g. another drug for something completely different at a knock down price. It can be a win-win for both sides but it does taking some managing.

Bear in mind NHS Procurement, and various Trusts independently, have preferred supplier status with hundreds of suppliers already. Its a bit of a non-story in terms market access but politically, spun well, it is gravy to Labour.
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But no amount of repudiation or truth will satisfy those who want to maintain the 'NHS for Sale' myth; one day someone will realise the NHS is not a single entity that could have a over parcelled up price.
 
drdel said:
But no amount of repudiation or truth will satisfy those who want to maintain the 'NHS for Sale' myth; one day someone will realise the NHS is not a single entity that could have a over parcelled up price.
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And likewise when Johnson assures us that the NHS will never be for sale, then I can 100% believe him. Even if a consortium could afford to buy all of the NHS, I doubt that any would want to. Rather they'd be very amenable I am sure to cherry-picking certain services. And that is the risk as I see it. More and more services are sold off and those that remain become very costly to fund - and a two-tier system develops to bring in private/individual medical insurance funding to keep the services affordable and free for the majority.

The key worry that my wife has at the moment on this subject is over her cancer drug. There are a few different cancer drugs ostensibly doing the same thing. But for some women specific brands work better for them than others - indeed studies suggest that for some women certain brands provide slightly improved statistical protection against a recurrence. Mrs Hogie has tried a few brands and some make her feel terrible, tired and sore. One slightly more expensive brand doesn't. She is very worried that that choice will go - and she will be forced to take one of the brands that make her feel terrible. And I mean really terrible.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
Well the likes of her and JC are not going to keep us safe.
Let anybody in, in uncontrolled numbers is one policy: and another is "not necessarily " making those sentenced for terrorist offences serve the full term.
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If you actually looked at the problem and saw what is actually happening you wouldn’t be jumping and having knee jerk reactions.

80% of UK terrorists over the past decade have been home grown.

https://amp.ft.com/content/c39a01b8-6c04-11e9-80c7-60ee53e6681d
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/homegrown-terrorism-prevent-strategy/

Immigration being the issue is simply smoke and mirrors.

As for the “lock em up and throw away the key” soundbites that’s all they are soundbites.
No party is going to introduce a terrorist bill that changes the punishment for all terrorist offences to life imprisonment without no chance of release, no party and that’s a fact.
We don’t have the facilities, resources, manpower etc to make such changes and why people believe we would is beyond me.

I’ve had mates blown up, mates killed, been involved in bombings and shootings and no one would like it any more than me to see terrorists shot on sight or imprisoned for life, but it’s not the world we live in and not the reality some will accept.

Were’s been all these cries for throwing away the key and stopping immigration for the last 10 yrs been while the tories have had control and been cutting the police and probstion services, the fact is it’s a knee jerk reaction to last weeks awful events that some are using to gain politically.
 
drdel said:
But no amount of repudiation or truth will satisfy those who want to maintain the 'NHS for Sale' myth; one day someone will realise the NHS is not a single entity that could have a over parcelled up price.
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Then why can’t the tories do what Sturgeon suggests and take the NHS off the table with legislation.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And likewise when Johnson assures us that the NHS will never be for sale, then I can 100% believe him. Even if a consortium could afford to buy all of the NHS, I doubt that any would want to. Rather they'd be very amenable I am sure to cherry-picking certain services. And that is the risk as I see it. More and more services are sold off and those that remain become very costly to fund - and a two-tier system develops to bring in private/individual medical insurance funding to keep the services affordable and free for the majority.

The key worry that my wife has at the moment on this subject is over her cancer drug. There are a few different cancer drugs ostensibly doing the same thing. But for some women specific brands work better for them than others - indeed studies suggest that for some women certain brands provide slightly improved statistical protection against a recurrence. Mrs Hogie has tried a few brands and some make her feel terrible, tired and sore. One slightly more expensive brand doesn't. She is very worried that that choice will go - and she will be forced to take one of the brands that make her feel terrible. And I mean really terrible.
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We've been there before Hugh. Most ancillary services were long since sold off. And many clinical services are outsourced to help reduce demand. Outsourced at a price that suits a private company.
 
Hobbit said:
We've been there before Hugh. Most ancillary services were long since sold off. And many clinical services are outsourced to help reduce demand. Outsourced at a price that suits a private company.
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Maybe - and I’m well aware of some services currently delivered by such as virgin health (my cousin is a prothsetist and I was surprised that prosthetics provision of prosthetics is outsourced to her company from trusts) - but it is the drugs situation that really worries her hugely. It would be a disaster for her if a new ‘regime’ took away the - albeit limited - choice that currently exists and she has to go with a brand that causes her real problems.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Maybe - and I’m well aware of some services currently delivered by such as virgin health (my cousin is a prothsetist and I was surprised that prosthetics provision of prosthetics is outsourced to her company from trusts) - but it is the drugs situation that really worries her hugely. It would be a disaster for her if a new ‘regime’ took away the - albeit it limited - choice that currently exists and she has to go with a brand that causes her real problems.
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Just a thought, the doc is responsible for prescribing. Surely it should be theor choice? After all, if there’s a clinical incident it’s them that can take the rap.
 
pauldj42 said:
So it’s not just the terrorists back on the streets! the tory party the party of law and order! my ar5e.

'Scandal brewing' as thousands of suspects released https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50563533
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Maybe you missed the distinction within the article but the people released hadn’t been convicted of anything.

The whole thing needs a more considered approach. Do we want a govt to create laws that put people in prison without charge?

Lets not jump to conclusions or have knee jerk reactions. Let the experts get to the bottom of it all first.
 
Hobbit said:
Maybe you missed the distinction within the article but the people released hadn’t been convicted of anything.

The whole thing needs a more considered approach. Do we want a govt to create laws that put people in prison without charge?

Lets not jump to conclusions or have knee jerk reactions. Let the experts get to the bottom of it all first.
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I’m sure the family of Kay Richardson will take solace in that review.
 
Hobbit said:
We've been there before Hugh. Most ancillary services were long since sold off. And many clinical services are outsourced to help reduce demand. Outsourced at a price that suits a private company.
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Weren't the Labour Party first to outsource NHS stuff to private supply?
 
Hobbit said:
Just a thought, the doc is responsible for prescribing. Surely it should be theor choice? After all, if there’s a clinical incident it’s them that can take the rap.
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Doctors prescribe the medication not the brand, wife has same issue with some of her medication, Companies make the medication under license but may differ in the casings etc.
We have to get 2 medications on paper scripts and shop around, certain pharmacies are tied to certain wholesalers, the independents have a bit more flexibility.
 
Jeez the politburo are in a fine state of excitement today. Everything Tory is rubbish ?
Theres a huge difference between letting out early some people who have committed crimes other than terrorism. Terrorists are mass killers, that's what their modus operandi is and given the chance these fanatics will murder again as we have just witnessed. Lock the bastards up on a remote island and parachute in supplies, they can murder each other. Absolutely no remorse for people who won't be changed and will recruit others to kill those who have fostered them and their parents.
 
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