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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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pauldj42 said:
Not seeing the question you’re answering, but I can guess it’s really clever and condescending.:rolleyes:
For the record, again and again, not you, but for the hard of reading.
I’m happy to leave, want to leave and if boris or the man on the moon achieves it then good.
My point is how can any of these manifesto’s (but today we’re discussing the tory one) guarantee any of the future spends.
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The question was...How long was Corbyn going to take to negotiate a new deal? My response was what Labour have said in their manifesto was going to happen - 3 months to negotiate and then a 2nd ref after 6 months. With the end of my response being tongue in cheek with regards to Corbyn suggesting that he would stay in the customs union and single market and keep free movement of people, which is essentially Remain in Leave clothing.

With regards to the manifestos, I think that the Tory one is the one that can come closest to a guarantee in that it is the least costly of them all. Based only on the fact that it involves spending the least amount of money then it must be the one that will be closest to happening in the event of Brexit turning out to be a disaster. Even if we were to remain I think that the Labour and Lib Dem manifestos are unaffordable with growth in the EU slowing or even turning negative I can't see how they can fund the manifesto promises without a growing economy. The figures earlier in the thread of the amount of tax that the top 5% already contribute verses how much extra they would be required to contribute just don't stack up.

The above statement is in no way a defence of the Tory manifesto or a suggestion that it's good, simply that I think it's closer to reality than the others.
 
pauldj42 said:
Who’s talking about Labour?
Nicky Morgan today saying leaving on 31st Jan is only for the public as there’s still 80% of the work to be done, so 80% by 31st Dec or it’s all been for nothing and we play WTO Rules.
So if the economy struggles what’s the plan?
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its doesn't matter, the Russians, Billionairs who don't want to pay tax and people who enable them to sort the cash earned in this country to offshore slush funds would have got what they wanted.
 
pauldj42 said:
Not seeing the question you’re answering, but I can guess it’s really clever and condescending.:rolleyes:
For the record, again and again, not you, but for the hard of reading.
I’m happy to leave, want to leave and if boris or the man on the moon achieves it then good.
My point is how can any of these manifesto’s (but today we’re discussing the tory one) guarantee any of the future spends.
Click to expand...

Assuming the Tories get in and Brexit happens, or assuming Labour get in and their 2nd Referendum comes up with leave, no manifesto can guarantee how Brexit will pan out. And if no one knows the future, no one knows how much there'd be to spend. If Brexit doesn't happen, for whatever reason, there is more certainty in the immediate future. Quite how the EU's new budget pans out, or the maturing of junk bonds or or or long term, no one knows.

Can't give you the certainty you're asking for. Its now down to you to determine what you believe and how it reconciles with your political beliefs.
 
ColchesterFC said:
The question was...How long was Corbyn going to take to negotiate a new deal? My response was what Labour have said in their manifesto was going to happen - 3 months to negotiate and then a 2nd ref after 6 months. With the end of my response being tongue in cheek with regards to Corbyn suggesting that he would stay in the customs union and single market and keep free movement of people, which is essentially Remain in Leave clothing.

With regards to the manifestos, I think that the Tory one is the one that can come closest to a guarantee in that it is the least costly of them all. Based only on the fact that it involves spending the least amount of money then it must be the one that will be closest to happening in the event of Brexit turning out to be a disaster. Even if we were to remain I think that the Labour and Lib Dem manifestos are unaffordable with growth in the EU slowing or even turning negative I can't see how they can fund the manifesto promises without a growing economy. The figures earlier in the thread of the amount of tax that the top 5% already contribute verses how much extra they would be required to contribute just don't stack up.

The above statement is in no way a defence of the Tory manifesto or a suggestion that it's good, simply that I think it's closer to reality than the others.
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I agree with the manifesto’s that’s why I described the Labour one as a fairy story.

I get the feeling though a lot of people believe if we leave on 31st Jan that’s brexit over done with.
 
Hobbit said:
Assuming the Tories get in and Brexit happens, or assuming Labour get in and their 2nd Referendum comes up with leave, no manifesto can guarantee how Brexit will pan out. And if no one knows the future, no one knows how much there'd be to spend. If Brexit doesn't happen, for whatever reason, there is more certainty in the immediate future. Quite how the EU's new budget pans out, or the maturing of junk bonds or or or long term, no one knows.

Can't give you the certainty you're asking for. Its now down to you to determine what you believe and how it reconciles with your political beliefs.
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Not looking for certainty Bri, just chewing the fat and hopefully making people see both sides (as well as me being educated) sadly some think words on a Golf Forum carry some weight.;)
 
Hobbit said:
Assuming the Tories get in and Brexit happens, or assuming Labour get in and their 2nd Referendum comes up with leave, no manifesto can guarantee how Brexit will pan out. And if no one knows the future, no one knows how much there'd be to spend. If Brexit doesn't happen, for whatever reason, there is more certainty in the immediate future. Quite how the EU's new budget pans out, or the maturing of junk bonds or or or long term, no one knows.

Can't give you the certainty you're asking for. Its now down to you to determine what you believe and how it reconciles with your political beliefs.
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That's not possible. Labour have said that their referendum will be their newly negotiated deal v Remain. Leave won't be an option.
 
Hobbit said:
Maybe its semantics but if the vote on Labour's deal is to accept it, surely that is a vote to Leave...
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Continued membership of the customs union and single market and freedom of movement to continue - according to Labour plans. I'm not sure what part of their leave deal could actually be considered leaving. It will be leave in name only and just be a less good version of remain. We'd be far better off remaining and actually being inside the club rather than leaving on a Labour deal (assuming that what they say they will negotiate is what actually happens).
 
pauldj42 said:
Not looking for certainty Bri, just chewing the fat and hopefully making people see both sides (as well as me being educated) sadly some think words on a Golf Forum carry some weight.;)
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Crikey, we all need some education. This is the most important election that I can ever remember - maybe we're all more aware now as politics has been centre stage for nearly 4 years now. And because of that, maybe we're all more disillusioned with it than we've ever been.
 
BBC News are reporting that in two separate incidents Labour canvassers have been attacked an injured. In the first a Labour activist and her fellow canvassers were called "Marxists" and told to leave Herefordshire. The woman, believed to be in her 70's, was thrown onto a car bonnet and has been treated for suspected cracked ribs after the assault, which came as campaigners were delivering leaflets. In the 2nd incident a man was arrested after a 72 year old woman was taken to hospital with a suspected broken jaw.

I can't believe that anyone would think that it is OK to attack someone else, least of all females in their 70's, for holding a different opinion. Hopefully these scumbags will be dealt with appropriately and politicians from all sides will look at their behaviour and language and moderate the tone they are using.

EDIT - Looks like one of those attacked was a man in his 70's not a woman as I previously posted. Not that it makes any difference to my feelings expressed in my original post.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552115
 
ColchesterFC said:
BBC News are reporting that in two separate incidents Labour canvassers have been attacked an injured. In the first a Labour activist and her fellow canvassers were called "Marxists" and told to leave Herefordshire. The woman, believed to be in her 70's, was thrown onto a car bonnet and has been treated for suspected cracked ribs after the assault, which came as campaigners were delivering leaflets. In the 2nd incident a man was arrested after a 72 year old woman was taken to hospital with a suspected broken jaw.

I can't believe that anyone would think that it is OK to attack someone else, least of all females in their 70's, for holding a different opinion. Hopefully these scumbags will be dealt with appropriately and politicians from all sides will look at their behaviour and language and moderate the tone they are using.

EDIT - Looks like one of those attacked was a man in his 70's not a woman as I previously posted. Not that it makes any difference to my feelings expressed in my original post.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552115
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unfortunatly this is what Brexit has done to this country
 
patricks148 said:
unfortunatly this is what Brexit has done to this country
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Brexit hasn't made people suddenly vile enough to attack the elderly, in order to do that you have to be a scumbag period regardless of your political preferences, all Brexit or the GE has done is give these vile morons an excuse to try and hide behind.
 
pauldj42 said:
Not seeing the question you’re answering, but I can guess it’s really clever and condescending.:rolleyes:
For the record, again and again, not you, but for the hard of reading.
I’m happy to leave, want to leave and if boris or the man on the moon achieves it then good.
My point is how can any of these manifesto’s (but today we’re discussing the tory one) guarantee any of the future spends.
Click to expand...
If you can't see it then don't presume what it is 🙄
 
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