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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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harpo_72 said:
I think he does as well ... which is very controversial on this forum!
The problem here is that it will be dismissed because it's a left wing newspaper (if your so far right everything becomes left )
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of course, but that Peter Oborne has a history of writting for left wing papers, like the The Daily Mail and Telegraph:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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The great thing about this thread is the entertainment value watching those with committed views blustering that one party is lying whilst the party they support is somehow dedicated to telling the truth.

I realise that it is unwise on here to admit to advanced years but, at least, experience can teach a number of things.

Having followed the leading parties' campaigns and voted in 13 General Elections the one thing I have learned is that in elections, like war, truth is the first casualty.

No party would ever expect to be elected to power if they, and they alone, told the unvarnished truth.

If they did there would be no need for "spin doctors" and we all realise that those particular characters are now embedded in all parties.

I don't see it changing anytime soon and please spare me all the arguments that one side lies more than the other or that "they started it".

They're all at it!
 
Pro Zach said:
It’s a UK election and the SNP only represent people in Scotland.

Nicola Sturgeon is not the leader of a UK national party, she is the leader of a Scottish National Party. Why should she be invited to a national debate when the vast majority of the UK can’t vote for her party?

Where I live there is an independent candidate. Should he be at the debate as the leader of a one candidate party standing in one Yorkshire constituency? If he gets together with other independents and forms the Yorkshire party with 30 constituents, should he then be invited to a national debate even though most people in the UK can’t vote for them?
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Just on that little statement. It absolutely is. So why do Tories continually parrot the 'We will Get Brexit Done in 2020 - Labour will inflict two referendum upon us' line - when the audience is the UK electorate. I'm not actually sure that Labour are suggesting that Scotland will have a referendum in 2020 if Sturgeon requests one. But hey.

Of course we know it is aimed at all of who are tired with what has happened since the last referendum - and the 'Brendas of Bristol' of this world who can't be bothered with too much democracy. So let's spin a little deceit to the English/Welsh/NI electorate about Labour plans.

The issue is pretty obvious. There is an electorate of about 4m in Scotland and the main political battle in Scotland will not be addressed at all by a Tory v Labour Head to Head debate - indeed such a H2H is almost irrelevant for many if not most of the Scottish electorate.
 
Hobbit said:
She's not even an MP. However, I do feel Ian Blackford and Jo Swinson hould be there. There's a chance of a hung parliament, and it would be good to hear their take on things.
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Are any candidates actually now MPs? With parliament dissolved for a General Election are there any MPs at the moment?

If Jo Swinson lost her seat in the GE but remained leader of the LibDems would she be invited to take part in any future Leadership Debates?

Is Farage going to be involved in any coming GE debate? Because if he is not as he was not a Westminster MP who would take part on behalf of the Brexit Party - or will they be excluded as they had no MPs in the last parliament?
 
patricks148 said:
of course, but that Peter Oborne has a history of writting for left wing papers, like the The Daily Mail and Telegraph:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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On DomCumm and the lies and the Press part in it.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=413000532961671

Peter Oborne was strongly Leave - until he started to look into the impact of Brexit - especially upon Northern Ireland. Though what he feels about Johnson's 'deal' I do not know

 
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MetalMickie said:
The great thing about this thread is the entertainment value watching those with committed views blustering that one party is lying whilst the party they support is somehow dedicated to telling the truth.

I realise that it is unwise on here to admit to advanced years but, at least, experience can teach a number of things.

Having followed the leading parties' campaigns and voted in 13 General Elections the one thing I have learned is that in elections, like war, truth is the first casualty.

No party would ever expect to be elected to power if they, and they alone, told the unvarnished truth.

If they did there would be no need for "spin doctors" and we all realise that those particular characters are now embedded in all parties.

I don't see it changing anytime soon and please spare me all the arguments that one side lies more than the other or that "they started it".

They're all at it!
Click to expand...

The problem with this GE and the lies - is that this is a GE about Brexit - simple - and Brexit matters far beyond the lifetime of a single parliament.

Normally when a party spins lies and deceits these are revealed once they get into government for what they are and the electorate judges the governing party accordingly in the next GE and damage caused by the deceits is limited. That is not the case this time. This GE is quite different from possibly any other since before WWII. We will be stuck with the Brexit the governing party delivers - that Brexit will not be reversible at the next GE or for some very long time.

And we can guess the tactics that the Tories will employ - we only have to look at the tactics Johnson employed to win the Tory Party Leadership contest. One-by-one he either fails to deliver on a promise he made back then; that was knowingly undeliverable, or that he steps back from - as he did yesterday on Corporation tax and raising the start point for 40% Income Tax.

And I won't be voting Labour either.
 
harpo_72 said:
Define undemocratic ?
She is representing up to 16 million people's view on Brexit.
Maybe not yours or the Russians, Comrade ;)
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Quite simple really. We all trudge along to a polling station and plonk a cross in the box to either leave the EU or remain in it, a vote it was promised that the resulting majority wish would be enacted by Parliament, then manifesto's of all the major parties in a subsequent General Election claimed that they would honour that majority and extricate us from the EU. Then, ignoring the democratic principle and the wishes of their voters who voted to leave, the Liberal nondemocrats decide that we'll stay in the EU if they get elected, a decision taken by MP's who were voted in to get us out
 
chrisd said:
Quite simple really. We all trudge along to a polling station and plonk a cross in the box to either leave the EU or remain in it, a vote it was promised that the resulting majority wish would be enacted by Parliament, then manifesto's of all the major parties in a subsequent General Election claimed that they would honour that majority and extricate us from the EU. Then, ignoring the democratic principle and the wishes of their voters who voted to leave, the Liberal nondemocrats decide that we'll stay in the EU if they get elected, a decision taken by MP's who were voted in to get us out
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So you are quite content that candidates representing over 16,000,000 UK citizens are dis-enfranchised from fair political debate.
Not just the Lib Dems though was it.
Scotland, the country, voted overwhelmingly [unlike a marginal UK vote] to remain in the EU. For their politicians to support Brexit would be regarded by many as undemocratic.
 
Teaser from O'Brien - apparently Arron Banks Email account hacked and some Emails published - and if this true at least one well known name will apparently have some difficult questions to answer. Oooh...
 
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chrisd said:
Quite simple really. We all trudge along to a polling station and plonk a cross in the box to either leave the EU or remain in it, a vote it was promised that the resulting majority wish would be enacted by Parliament, then manifesto's of all the major parties in a subsequent General Election claimed that they would honour that majority and extricate us from the EU. Then, ignoring the democratic principle and the wishes of their voters who voted to leave, the Liberal nondemocrats decide that we'll stay in the EU if they get elected, a decision taken by MP's who were voted in to get us out
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Stop it, you can't be seen to be talking any sort of sense on here :LOL:
 
chrisd said:
Quite simple really. We all trudge along to a polling station and plonk a cross in the box to either leave the EU or remain in it, a vote it was promised that the resulting majority wish would be enacted by Parliament, then manifesto's of all the major parties in a subsequent General Election claimed that they would honour that majority and extricate us from the EU. Then, ignoring the democratic principle and the wishes of their voters who voted to leave, the Liberal nondemocrats decide that we'll stay in the EU if they get elected, a decision taken by MP's who were voted in to get us out
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And Johnson's 'promise' about definitely leaving the EU on 31st October 'I'd rather be dead in a ditch'; his promise of cutting Corporation Tax; his promise of cutting Income tax for higher earners by increaing the 40% threshold. All promises. All walked back from. And why? Because the circumstances and his priorities have changed.

Yes - it's tedious - but so is the 'you lost get over it' one. Time has moved on and the need for compromise is obvious. Telling those who voted to Remain to 'get over it' doesn't actually help very much. Neither does a campaigning line 'Let's Get Brexit Done' when nobody can actually tell me what that Brexit that will be done will actually look like the day after we leave. Because Brexit will not be done. Simples.

Meanwhile all I see is No Deal Brexit next year. Unless that is Johnson says one thing now to get the votes, and another July next year when completion of a deal is clearly not going to be achieved by the end of the year and the need for an extension is obvious and then sought.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
The problem with this GE and the lies - is that this is a GE about Brexit - simple - and Brexit matters far beyond the lifetime of a single parliament.

Normally when a party spins lies and deceits these are revealed once they get into government for what they are and the electorate judges the governing party accordingly in the next GE and damage caused by the deceits is limited. That is not the case this time. This GE is quite different from possibly any other since before WWII. We will be stuck with the Brexit the governing party delivers - that Brexit will not be reversible at the next GE or for some very long time.

And we can guess the tactics that the Tories will employ - we only have to look at the tactics Johnson employed to win the Tory Party Leadership contest. One-by-one he either fails to deliver on a promise he made back then; that was knowingly undeliverable, or that he steps back from - as he did yesterday on Corporation tax and raising the start point for 40% Income Tax.

And I won't be voting Labour either.
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I rest my case, m'lud!
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And Johnson's 'promise' about definitely leaving the EU on 31st October 'I'd rather be dead in a ditch'; his promise of cutting Corporation Tax; his promise of cutting Income tax for higher earners by increaing the 40% threshold. All promises. All walked back from. And why? Because the circumstances and his priorities have changed.

Yes - it's tedious - but so is the 'you lost get over it' one. Time has moved on and the need for compromise is obvious. Telling those who voted to Remain to 'get over it' doesn't actually help very much. Neither does a campaigning line 'Let's Get Brexit Done' when nobody can actually tell me what that Brexit that will be done will actually look like the day after we leave. Because Brexit will not be done. Simples.

Meanwhile all I see is No Deal Brexit next year. Unless that is Johnson says one thing now to get the votes, and another July next year when completion of a deal is clearly not going to be achieved by the end of the year and the need for an extension is obvious and then sought.
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You well know that Boris meant what he said about the 31st, he was thwarted by the underhand dealings of shister remoaners, so failing to deliver his "promise" was ultimately not in his power and not his fault, although I dont remember the word "promise" being used by him

Time for compromise hasn't come, leave did win and there is simply no excuse not to enact the will of the 17.4m. I'm happy with a no deal Brexit if the EU wont give us a really good deal, it shouldn't take long to sort a 'free trade deal' but if Barnier wants to sod us about no deal is fine.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Yes - it's tedious - but so is the 'you lost get over it' one. Time has moved on and the need for compromise is obvious. Telling those who voted to Remain to 'get over it' doesn't actually help very much. /QUOTE]

Compromise!!??
What sort of compromise are you thinking of and how does that sit with what the majority of those who voted ??

It was a straight In/Out question - there can be no half measures because half measures satisfies neither side.

I can't wait for the multitude of court cases that will come from this election - results will get challenged all over the place because people are learning that they don't have to accept a decision - and who's teaching them?
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