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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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pauldj42 said:
Foodbanks, premature deaths due to austerity measures, National debt.
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And how many food banks, premature deaths in other EU countries and national debts in those countries are you going to attribute to the Tories? Which party massively overspent during the boom years, running up even greater debts funding the biggest expansion of state employment in the western world, and now wants to more than repeat it. Austerity has to end, and we'll see what is proposed in the manifestos.

pauldj42 said:
Sorry mate, not that clever, who?
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The guy who is attributed with "shoot for the moon..." Strangely enough, I think he had quite a dodgy past but can't remember what it was... old age and rattling marbles I guess.
 
Hobbit said:
And how many food banks, premature deaths in other EU countries and national debts in those countries are you going to attribute to the Tories? Which party massively overspent during the boom years, running up even greater debts funding the biggest expansion of state employment in the western world, and now wants to more than repeat it. Austerity has to end, and we'll see what is proposed in the manifestos.



The guy who is attributed with "shoot for the moon..." Strangely enough, I think he had quite a dodgy past but can't remember what it was... old age and rattling marbles I guess.
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What’s other Countries got to do with it? You’ve lost me.
Homelessness is up at record levels, they promised the National debt would be sorted by 2015, then 2017, then 2019, now 2025.
Mental Health crisis, and funding has been cut.
20,000 Police promised, no actual funding yet, but still not back to the level of 2010.
2015 they promised 200,000 brand new homes in a flagship scheme, this year it was admitted not a single one had been built.
 
The Government have never said the National debt will be cleared by any date. They have said they will reduce and remove the National Deficit, there's a big difference. Its funny how some people decry the government for not removing the deficit but also complain of austerity, its pretty basic ecconomics that if you're spending and borrowing too much you have to cut spending to fix it, I thought we all understood you can't borrow your way out of debt.

Regarding food banks, they are a fairly new concept and do a great job, I think its wrong to suggest they are a symptom of the current government though. If food banks had been available at any time in the past they would have been used and needed, I know my Mother would have used them at times if they had been there.

Some people are indeed poor now just like always but in general things are quite good for many, employment is high and especially in full time jobs, the minimum wage has increased year on year and average wage increases continues to outstrip inflation. If we want better services we have to produce more wealth and that means making it easier for new and existing businesses to thrive, that can't be be done by just increasing tax or creating circumstances where new businesses are hampered by red tape.

We have a wonderful country and often forget that, we can make it even better but only by hard work and throwing off the cloak of despair so many want to smother it in. OK there's so much more to do but bankrupting the country will benefit no one in the long term.
 
Looks like Labour manifesto strategy is to just cut and paste successful SNP policies, good to see them becoming socialists again.:LOL:

Funny how 9 years of austerity suddenly ends when a crucial Brexit vote in a GE happens.:unsure:
 
pauldj42 said:
What’s other Countries got to do with it? You’ve lost me.
Homelessness is up at record levels, they promised the National debt would be sorted by 2015, then 2017, then 2019, now 2025.
Mental Health crisis, and funding has been cut.
20,000 Police promised, no actual funding yet, but still not back to the level of 2010.
2015 they promised 200,000 brand new homes in a flagship scheme, this year it was admitted not a single one had been built.
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You brought up food banks. I was merely highlighting they exist in many EU countries, and that includes in left wing and right wing governed countries.

And you can have all the Police, social care etc if you're willing to pay for it, whether that be through higher taxation or self-funding. You get the chance in a month's time to choose. The maths for it, albeit rudimentary is fairly straightforward. Divide a party's new spending requirements by the number of workers. You could go a little further and look at the current Corporation Tax revenue and add 5%, then look at income tax.

The tax the higher earners to pay for it is laughable, and its soundbite politics - it appeals to the masses. Would adding 5% to the high earners make that much difference to a multi-million pound spending programme? It will barely touch the sides.

Austerity went too deep and for too long. Change is needed, big change is needed. But for me, Labour's spend spend spend and re-nationalise is unicorns running up the Mall, and very expensive unicorns too. And if that's what people want, I have no problem with it at all, just as I have no problem with anyone that voted Leave. Its their political choice, and the type of life they want. But like the cries of "Leavers didn't know what they were voting for," I hope that everyone, no matter who they vote for take the time to look behind the soundbite politics.
 
Labours pledge for free higher education is a bit misleading. From what I have read, it is only for certain degrees, Engineering, Nursing, Accounting, Medicsl, etc. It's not for all courses. This is not being as well publicised as the sound bite free education for all, as I guess it won't get as many votes.
 
Hobbit said:
You brought up food banks. I was merely highlighting they exist in many EU countries, and that includes in left wing and right wing governed countries.

And you can have all the Police, social care etc if you're willing to pay for it, whether that be through higher taxation or self-funding. You get the chance in a month's time to choose. The maths for it, albeit rudimentary is fairly straightforward. Divide a party's new spending requirements by the number of workers. You could go a little further and look at the current Corporation Tax revenue and add 5%, then look at income tax.

The tax the higher earners to pay for it is laughable, and its soundbite politics - it appeals to the masses. Would adding 5% to the high earners make that much difference to a multi-million pound spending programme? It will barely touch the sides.

Austerity went too deep and for too long. Change is needed, big change is needed. But for me, Labour's spend spend spend and re-nationalise is unicorns running up the Mall, and very expensive unicorns too. And if that's what people want, I have no problem with it at all, just as I have no problem with anyone that voted Leave. Its their political choice, and the type of life they want. But like the cries of "Leavers didn't know what they were voting for," I hope that everyone, no matter who they vote for take the time to look behind the soundbite politics.
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I guess if everyone looks beyond the soundbites nobody will be voting in the GE, let’s just keep basing our future on the past and ignore trying to fix it.
This is a few years old but suns up some of the issues, the rich ate getting richer and the gap between them and the poorest is widening, didn’t all the rich threaten to leave if Blair got in? How many actually went or did they realise just how better off they were staying.
As for other Countries, I genuinely couldn’t give a stuff.
I’ll read the Manifesto’s and then make my choice.



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drdel said:
I have to admit I've given up looking for logic or taking seriously any numbers or promises made over the next few weeks - the electioneering is one thing but the bickering and trying to get the last word is just beyond the pail.
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Criticise Labour and LibDem spending plans as we might well do and be justified in doing so - but as the Javid has told us that economic forecasting of the impact of Johnson's deal is not required as the benefits are self-evident - how can we believe anything that the Conservative party say that they can afford if in government. Then again I suppose Javid's logic fits well with the Leave Leaders criticism of Treasury Forecasts as always being inaccurate - and so in the main to be ignored. I guess we look to Super Canada Plus - how will that work for the economy? Who knows. We don't even know what it is... Such is the tangled web that has been woven.

I ask my son what it's like living in Sheffield on a rather less than wealthy housing estate (between Shirecliffe and Parson's Cross - so folk who know Sheffield will know the area) and on less than the minimum wage (he is self-employed) - and he'll tell you that it is very tough - has been for many years - and that people are finding things very, very difficult. These communities need a significant step change to happen as the economic model of the last few decades just has not worked, and is not working for them.
 
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pauldj42 said:
I guess if everyone looks beyond the soundbites nobody will be voting in the GE, let’s just keep basing our future on the past and ignore trying to fix it.
This is a few years old but suns up some of the issues, the rich ate getting richer and the gap between them and the poorest is widening, didn’t all the rich threaten to leave if Blair got in? How many actually went or did they realise just how better off they were staying.
As for other Countries, I genuinely couldn’t give a stuff.
I’ll read the Manifesto’s and then make my choice.



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What has a government got to do with wage rises? Its not a communist state. I've sat in meetings in which salaries and bonuses are decided for the workforce, and it was sickening. If you want to blame someone, blame the selfish bosses that award themselves those pay rises. Its an attitude amongst a number of bosses/owners that you need to consider, not the political parties. I sat in those meetings for 17 years, i.e. before the Tories came to power, and those attitudes were prevalent under Labour too. Its the politics of selfishness that prevails in the boardroom, and has nothing to do with whatever party is in power.
 
Colonel Bogey said:
Sorry old bean, but it is. This is the referendum the idiots were calling for.
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Idiots everywhere though and if you wish to risk you and your children’s future on Brexit alone, then fill your boots, I’d rather look at the bigger picture.
 
Hobbit said:
What has a government got to do with wage rises? Its not a communist state. I've sat in meetings in which salaries and bonuses are decided for the workforce, and it was sickening. If you want to blame someone, blame the selfish bosses that award themselves those pay rises. Its an attitude amongst a number of bosses/owners that you need to consider, not the political parties. I sat in those meetings for 17 years, i.e. before the Tories came to power, and those attitudes were prevalent under Labour too. Its the politics of selfishness that prevails in the boardroom, and has nothing to do with whatever party is in power.
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I disagree, I believe ANY government has a role in this, they can influence attitude and look to change it.
 
pauldj42 said:
I disagree, I believe ANY government has a role in this, they can influence attitude and look to change it.
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Sorry Paul but that is pure fantasy, or at least I hope it is. And it is a real danger to the economy. As soon as you get governments interfering to that level is businesses you will see foreign investment shrink. You will see share prices tumble, which will also affect many people's pensions. Having governments setting salary levels is wholly wrong. Yes, lets cap bonuses, especially the untaxed share bonuses that a number receive.

What happens when a business looks to expand, take on more employees, broaden its portfolio but the government of the day says you must increase salaries based on gross profits? Or says a business must increase pay by the rate of inflation but the business is virtually on its backside? As an employee would you accept half the inflation rate and still have a job or the full rise and be out of a job in 6 months?

Blaming governments for who is rich and who isn't is naive. Bosses decide pay levels, especially their own.
 
Hobbit said:
Sorry Paul but that is pure fantasy, or at least I hope it is. And it is a real danger to the economy. As soon as you get governments interfering to that level is businesses you will see foreign investment shrink. You will see share prices tumble, which will also affect many people's pensions. Having governments setting salary levels is wholly wrong. Yes, lets cap bonuses, especially the untaxed share bonuses that a number receive.

What happens when a business looks to expand, take on more employees, broaden its portfolio but the government of the day says you must increase salaries based on gross profits? Or says a business must increase pay by the rate of inflation but the business is virtually on its backside? As an employee would you accept half the inflation rate and still have a job or the full rise and be out of a job in 6 months?

Blaming governments for who is rich and who isn't is naive. Bosses decide pay levels, especially their own.
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I agree. The minimum wage increases over recent years have been an improvement for low paid employees and an area where government has been able to intervene.
We paid our employees a very competitive salary and allocated 20% of gross profit into an employee annual bonus scheme. Many employers just don't understand the benefits of a well motivated workforce. I agree that governments can not control pay in the private sector, that's been tried before and failed.
 
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