SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Dont need them old fruit ðŸ¤
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Makes me laugh when these parties like the Lib Dems, Greens etc start their election speeches with "If we get into power". Loving the optimism but face reality people
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
It’s statements like this that make me worried, because it sounds like people are going to vote apathetically and not accept they can change Brexit - push it through or stop it.
Boris has bravely stated he will initiate his deal - I like that he has drawn a line in the sand.
Labour - good proposal but time consuming
Lib Dem’s/ greens - confirmed position.
Manifesto irrelevant until Brexit is completed.
chrisd
Major Champion
So, they are going to negotiate a better deal and then have a referendum as to accept it or stay in?
Doesn't it occur to them that the EU would prefer us to stay in as we prop the thing up with our payments, so, they aren't going to offer any deal that means we leave, given that, under this plan we do not leave anyway whichever way it was to go?
Have a big like.
Brexit has certainly focused the parties and also given the electorate a huge chance to influence the outcome once and for all - hopefully.
Totally agree with your last sentence. Until a govt knows where Brexit is going, it won't know how much money it has to play with.
I agree about the apathetic voting but I just laugh at these "smaller" parties insisting they can come to power. I do think some of them can very much influence proceedings and feel the Lib Dems and the greens will both make some inroads into the Tory and Labour seats around the country this time around but running the country.....?
jp5
Q-School Graduate
Corbyn is a leaver anyway so I suspect his deal would be a genuine leave.
Grant85
Head Pro
Seems like this is already happening with 2 big 'bad news' stories dominating coverage yesterday in terms of Alun Cairns being found out to lie about his former aide's involvement in the collapse in a rape trial, as well as Jacob Reese Mogg stating the Grenfell residents lacked common sense in abiding by fire service advice to 'stay put' in the tower. Not to mention Andrew Bridgen then effectively backing up Mogg!
And Boris comparing Corbyn to Stalin... a dictator, mass murderer and ethnic cleanser!?!? Completely ridiculous.
Ultimately I believe most Tories (at MP / Cabinet level) are pretty much in it for themselves and while they may be able to operate effectively in the bubble of parliament, with a civil service / staff at their disposal... but put them into a radio or TV studio and their true colours show. Ultimately they don't really care about people or even what policies they can put in place - they simply care about being in power, more so than anything else.
Can they really keep this going for another 5 weeks without further stories like this breaking!?!?
ger147
Tour Winner
The LibDems were in government as recently as 2015...
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Apparently this is so obviously 'faked' it should've been ignored anyway... According to the very unclever James Cleverly... So why do it?
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
And, remain in complete denial about the 'damage' they caused...
Colonel Bogey
Active member
If there was another ref it should be
1. Remain with better terms than we have now.
2. Remain with same deal as before that leaves us £170 million out of pocket per month.
3. Leave without any deal.
That should do it.
Just like the 2017 election, Corbyn is proving to be an effective orator and campaigner. I 'love' his use of closed questions where he asks the electorate a question that only has one compassionate answer. Unfortunately, with the Tory ineptitude at present it looks like Labour will make up ground and it could be another hung parliament - nothing will get sorted.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Different perspective they damaged themselves because Nick said “yes†to Dave too much.
All the things that government did were Tory policy and the Liberal Centerist policies were ignored.
This made most centre supporters depressed as they thought their voices would be heard. In the end it was liberal self harm.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I rather suspect the government has a reasonably good idea but doesn't want to tell us as it might undermine the affordability of their pre-election spending (I hesitate to use the word) 'promises'.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...id-boris-johnson-economy-damage-a9161391.html
That notwithstanding, our impressive Chancellor of the Exchequer is bullish in rejecting the need for economic analysis of the deal - who needs such analysis when making spending promises when you can say...
“It is self-evident that what we have achieved in terms of this deal is the right way forward for the economy, much better than any alternative,â€
Which is good to know.
"All you need is a little faith, trust, and pixie dust."--Peter Pan
If you consider what the Chancellor hasn't said in that sentence, he's probably right. The alternative was more harmful, i.e. No Deal.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Indeed - however as the analysis will probably show Johnson's Deal being positive relative to No Deal - it will likely also show the projected impact of No Deal. There therefore might be benefit to Johnson putting analysis out there to undermine Farage and Friends, and those in the ERG who are supporting Johnson's Deal in the expectation that we can't agree a trade deal by July 2020 when we'd have to request an extension - and no extension requested and we leave with No Deal.
drdel
Tour Rookie
I think you may indeed be right so I agree but I'd come at it from a different direction to yourself. IMO, as I've mentioned before, the EU's historic style in any of its negotiations and why they often take so long is because its a weird decision making set-up between the Brussels cliche and the 27/8 member nations. This means for Barnier (and the other examples of EU negotiators with Canada, Swiss, Greece, Italy, Poland etc) time is something their arrogance tells then is on their side. Consequently for Barnier (personally) stonewalling is a safe tactic because he is never in a position of having to 'sell' a compromise (in his eyes a failing) of any sort to the member states. This means everything goes down to the wire.
As long as we are a member we will be subjected to the stonewall tactics: IMO that we need to leave on a No Deal basis to break this cycle. This is the only way the heat from the r27 member nations will be felt by Brussels/Barnier and encourage a sensible debate
I understand and agree with the reasoning about leaving with No Deal but it does come with an element of risk. Getting various trade deals through will, as you've highlighted take quite a while. During that time tariffs will be in place. Adding 10% costs to companies importing goods will impact those companies by some margin, and expecting the UK govt to be nimble enough to mitigate those tariffs is very risky.
Also, when the Lisbon Treaty is fully implemented the need for the full 27 countries to agree in certain areas will be reduced due to the new, qualified majority required to pass legislation - not sure if that includes trade treaties.
No Deal is attractive but comes with a huge amount of uncertainty for business.
drdel
Tour Rookie
Yup I wouldn't disagree. Its my reluctant conclusion. My concern would also be that with a 'hung' Parliament the debacle will drag on and the Lisbon Treaty implications would stifle any hope the UK may have of driving change as the CoG of the 'majority' decisions would IMO go the newer Eastern bloc states.
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