Amazon pays £1.7 million in tax

[Hobbit]

Individuals, on PAYE, get fed scraps... Whilst 'big business' abuse the welfare state on an industrial scale...
The 'gig economy' needs reversing PDQ...

I wouldn't call a minimum of 20% tax relief on pension contributions as scraps. It makes a hell of a difference to the pot.

But lets be honest here, you just don't like big business making profits whilst their staff are on the going rate for a job.

Amazon haven't done anything wrong at all. They've followed the rules. Its a non-story to everyone apart from those who want to take more money off them than is within the rules.

Alternatively, lets take more money off lots of companies that have operations in the UK, but won't that just see them relocating elsewhere. More job losses, and more benefits to pay out because of it. Sometimes political ideology doesn't fit the realities.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I wouldn't call a minimum of 20% tax relief on pension contributions as scraps. It makes a hell of a difference to the pot.

But lets be honest here, you just don't like big business making profits whilst their staff are on the going rate for a job.

Amazon haven't done anything wrong at all. They've followed the rules. Its a non-story to everyone apart from those who want to take more money off them than is within the rules.

Alternatively, lets take more money off lots of companies that have operations in the UK, but won't that just see them relocating elsewhere. More job losses, and more benefits to pay out because of it. Sometimes political ideology doesn't fit the realities.

Going back against what I said as I know you have knowledge on this subject Bri.

My issue on this is the fact it’s not a level playing field for British Companies, how are own business’s meant to compete?

Doon’s point about Amazon paying £2mil in rates sounds great, until you hear about the £5mil given to Amazon by the SNP, how many Scottish Companies have been given such incentives.

Like I say, I don’t want Amazon, Google, Starbucks etc to pay more tax than others, I’d just like everyone paying the same.

Your example of Eire and their rates, I was unaware, read up on it and yes in the short term it’s been a success, but they are now saying it’s unsubstainable and could create greater damage in the future if these “foreign” companies pull out, especially as the EU have hit some with heavy fines.

 

[MegaSteve]

I wouldn't call a minimum of 20% tax relief on pension contributions as scraps. It makes a hell of a difference to the pot.

But lets be honest here, you just don't like big business making profits whilst their staff are on the going rate for a job.

.

If 'big business' was honest and true I'd support them...
But, they are not... Far from it...

They'll use every back door method, available to them, to avoid their obligations...

I understand different jobs will have different pay rates... However the associated benefits like pensions, sick/holiday pay should be the same across the board...

If a business is taking a subsidy, from government, then the least they should be doing is paying a 'living wage'...
If when handing out subsidies government is not insisting on this... Shame on them...

 

[Hobbit]

Going back against what I said as I know you have knowledge on this subject Bri.

My issue on this is the fact it’s not a level playing field for British Companies, how are own business’s meant to compete?

Doon’s point about Amazon paying £2mil in rates sounds great, until you hear about the £5mil given to Amazon by the SNP, how many Scottish Companies have been given such incentives.

Like I say, I don’t want Amazon, Google, Starbucks etc to pay more tax than others, I’d just like everyone paying the same.

Your example of Eire and their rates, I was unaware, read up on it and yes in the short term it’s been a success, but they are now saying it’s unsubstainable and could create greater damage in the future if these “foreign” companies pull out, especially as the EU have hit some with heavy fines.

Its not a level playing field, but who were the large internet retailers before Amazon filled that niche? Bearing in mind internet sales now outstrip High Street sales I'm inclined to think that there's plenty of retailers out there who've also latched onto the internet as a route to market, and are making a solid go at it.

All governments, both in the UK and across the EU, pay incentives to encourage companies to do business in the UK and across Europe. It could be argued that Nissan and Toyota helped sound the death knell for British Leyland but without those companies setting up in Sunderland and Derby what would unemployment be there? Its not a new phenomenon, and if anything there's less of it now under EU regs than there used to be.

The EU are bullying both the Irish govt and the companies involved. They've gone through so many deals with a fine toothed comb looking for the smallest thing. Pity they didn't do the same with Tata Steel when they closed down the blast furness at Redcar, prior to selling it to SSI, and taking up big incentives from the Dutch govt to set up a new plant in the Netherlands.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Its not a level playing field, but who were the large internet retailers before Amazon filled that niche? Bearing in mind internet sales now outstrip High Street sales I'm inclined to think that there's plenty of retailers out there who've also latched onto the internet as a route to market, and are making a solid go at it.

All governments, both in the UK and across the EU, pay incentives to encourage companies to do business in the UK and across Europe. It could be argued that Nissan and Toyota helped sound the death knell for British Leyland but without those companies setting up in Sunderland and Derby what would unemployment be there? Its not a new phenomenon, and if anything there's less of it now under EU regs than there used to be.

The EU are bullying both the Irish govt and the companies involved. They've gone through so many deals with a fine toothed comb looking for the smallest thing. Pity they didn't do the same with Tata Steel when they closed down the blast furness at Redcar, prior to selling it to SSI, and taking up big incentives from the Dutch govt to set up a new plant in the Netherlands.

Cheers, Like I said I have no issue with particular Companies, but I’d like to see British Companies given the same incentives.

 

[Hobbit]

If 'big business' was honest and true I'd support them...
But, they are not... Far from it...

They'll use every back door method, available to them, to avoid their obligations...

I understand different jobs will have different pay rates... However the associated benefits like pensions, sick/holiday pay should be the same across the board...

If a business is taking a subsidy, from government, then the least they should be doing is paying a 'living wage'...
If when handing out subsidies government is not insisting on this... Shame on them...

The employment laws, financial accounting rules and EU regs mean that pretty much every big business is transparently honest across many, many areas of business. To not be so risks multi-million pound fines, and the rules that came in 2016 mean that MD's and senior managers go to jail now.

There are no such thing as back door methods. You would be amazed at the level of scrutiny in big business, whether its signing off on the end of year accounts or the processes that are in place to protect employees. The annual audits by independent companies that require sign off to be licensed to trade. It even comes down to the number of toilets, or seats in the brew room.

Pensions should be the same; for the vast majority of employees across just about every private company there'll be a fixed % rate for pension contributions. And every company I've worked for, not many but all big multi-nationals, all had the same holiday rates. And in some of them an employee, e.g. a long serving tea lady would have more holidays than a senior manager who has only been there a week.

I won't argue with you the over living wage argument but would pose the question. Why isn't the living wage covered by law? A company only has to pay the minimum wage. If it does that its not breaking the law. But, and its painful to say, if some companies paid more than the minimum wage they wouldn't be able to compete with some foreign imports from countries where the labour rates are a fraction of those in the UK. The choice in those cases is minimum wage or no business/job. Yes, the MD and senior managers will be on a lot more but they won't be on the sort of top salary that their position would be paid in a blue chip company.

 

[Hobbit]

Cheers, Like I said I have no issue with particular Companies, but I’d like to see British Companies given the same incentives.

I agree that British companies should get the same incentives but EU laws don't permit it. Established businesses don't qualify for many of the subsidies that a new or foreign start-up can receive. It wrong, especially if a business is struggling. For some bizarre reason they go bust, and then a new start-up can apply for grants. Why not just pay subsidies to the struggling business, and support them with a stringent business review so as not to throw good money after bad.

 

[MegaSteve]

Pensions should be the same; for the vast majority of employees across just about every private company there'll be a fixed % rate for pension contributions. And every company I've worked for, not many but all big multi-nationals, all had the same holiday rates. And in some of them an employee, e.g. a long serving tea lady would have more holidays than a senior manager who has only been there a week.

Quoting Frank Field "large firms once strived to provide the best possible conditions for their workforce, but self-employed workers were now routinely used to cut costs."

Which just about sums up my experiences, in the workplace, and how I've seen the lot of the 'regular' worker disappear down the pan with the rise of the gig economy... Basically pretend they don't actually work for you and you can ignore them...

Oh... And I genuinely believed Scottish government, along with many other covenants, expect the living wage to be paid by employers receiving a subsidy from them... Which is why I raised it...

 

[Hobbit]

Quoting Frank Field "large firms once strived to provide the best possible conditions for their workforce, but self-employed workers were now routinely used to cut costs."

Which just about sums up my experiences, in the workplace, and how I've seen the lot of the 'regular' worker disappear down the pan with the rise of the gig economy... Basically pretend they don't actually work for you and you can ignore them...

Oh... And I genuinely believed Scottish government, along with many other covenants, expect the living wage to be paid by employers receiving a subsidy from them... Which is why I raised it...

I’m guilty of using self employed and fixed term contracts for some of the staff. Typically, this was for new business. Once the growth became established they were offered permanent employment. The aim was always to grow the business and offer permanent contracts.

Why do it that way? To protect the business, and that means the jobs of the permanent staff. I always ran the business slightly short staffed for the same reason, and made up that shortfall by offering overtime.

Another reason to get the temps on permanent contracts as soon as possible was the cost of further recruitment and training.

Strangely though, all of the self employed staff I took on wanted to stay self employed. None of them stayed more than a year, choosing to move to the next lucrative contract.

That aside, there are very few bad large employers out there. The laws just don’t allow it. If you want to look for poor employers look for those that do short term project/contract work.