Women in men's competitions.

[Copernicus]

Your views please: say, in order to ensure working women get good access to the course at weekend, they are allowed to play in what has traditionally been the 'men's competition' on a Sunday which takes up almost all the playing day. So not 'mixed golf' but the odd woman choosing to 'take her chances in the men's comp' as it was put. Assuming one or two women are more than happy to do that (a) should they use women's or men's tees and (b) would the CSS being calculated mostly on men's performances be in any way disadvantageous to them?

 

[Senseicads]

As long as every person playing in the comp plays off the same tees, I don't have any kind of issue with anyone playing at all regardless of gender. In a mixed doubles comp I am more than happy for women to play off the ladies tees and the men off the mens/comp tees.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

My own view is that if you want to play in the same competition for the same prize then you have to play off the same tees. Different tees = different competition.

A mixed pairs comp is a different matter as it is balanced out.

 

[hovis]

I have no problem providing the course is set up correctly. we have one hole that for men goes from a 330 yard par 4 to a 440 on comp day. the womans stays at 280. not fair imo.

what I've also seen in bigger mixed comps is when a woman wins the longest drive with a drive that simply can't be matched from the mens tee's. they should have has a prize for biggest mens and ladies drive

 

[turkish]

Again I'm one for if same competition needs to be off same tees. no issue with women competing.

 

[dewsweeper]

Different situation at my club.
We only have about 6 ladies as full members playing on Saturdays,mens comp day.
That do not play in any competition it is just a roll up for them but they take 2 or 3 time slots away from the mens comp times.
I would much rather for the sake of true equality if they played in the comp but it will not happen,the ladies are pretty strong at the club and with councils backing call the shots in this regard.

 

[doublebogey7]

I have no problem providing the course is set up correctly. we have one hole that for men goes from a 330 yard par 4 to a 440 on comp day. the womans stays at 280. not fair imo.

Sorry but those putting these arguments can't understand the handicap system, assuming we are not talking scratch events here. A women playing from the tee's from which their handicap is calculated has as much change of shooting below/above their handicap as a man playing from the tee from which their handicap is calculated. The whole idea of the handicap system is to even the playing field up if you want complete "fairness" then only compete in scratch events.
I'll add that in my view these arguments are put in order to put obstacles in the way of truly mixed competition.

 

[hovis]

Sorry but those putting these arguments can't understand the handicap system, assuming we are not talking scratch events here. A women playing from the tee's from which their handicap is calculated has as much change of shooting below/above their handicap as a man playing from the tee from which their handicap is calculated. The whole idea of the handicap system is to even the playing field up if you want complete "fairness" then only compete in scratch events.
I'll add that in my view these arguments are put in order to put obstacles in the way of truly mixed competition.

even though mens handicaps are calculated from the white tees there can still be a tremendous amount of movement in the white tee yardage. for eg the red tee's on the 3rd at my place are always on the same tee. the whites can be 180 yards to 230 yards. not a problem if we're all in the same boat

 

[IanG]

We have many competitions where women and men compete in the same stableford competition. Ladies play off the ladies tees and the gents off their medal tees. These are the tees each uses for all their handicap qualifying scores so their handicaps are relative to those tees. Differences between (par-SSS) are adjusted for in the competition scores but not hake into account in handicap adjustments. It think most of the software systems nowadays can handle mixed competitions.

It works fine at our place. Whether you have mixed groups on the course or single sex groups is up to your committee. We have mixed groups and apart from a few grumps ( and there are always some ) it has never been a problem.

 

[fundy]

let them play, let them play from their own tees and calculate a separate css for that tee that day for handicap purposes. whether you run their comp as a separate division or have everyone all in one division up to you. If you allow it all in one comp, and a lady shoots the lowest score congrats to her, dont moan that she played from the red tees (this is the joys of handicap golf surely?)

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Sorry but those putting these arguments can't understand the handicap system, assuming we are not talking scratch events here. A women playing from the tee's from which their handicap is calculated has as much change of shooting below/above their handicap as a man playing from the tee from which their handicap is calculated. The whole idea of the handicap system is to even the playing field up if you want complete "fairness" then only compete in scratch events.
I'll add that in my view these arguments are put in order to put obstacles in the way of truly mixed competition.

This feels like the right answer to me.

The availability of the course at the weekend is a massive barrier to young women playing golf. My wife works the same hours I do. That is how modern life works.

 

[Capella]

As long as the tees are rated for both male and female players (meaning the women get extra shots when they play off the longer tees) it should not be an issue. But it also shouldn't be an issue if the women tee up from the ladie's tees they are used to (and on courses where the yellow or white tees are still not rated for female players, it's the only fair option). Because as doublebogey7 stated, that's how the handicap system works. But suggesting that the ladies should just tee off off the whites without any adaption to their handicap and "take their chances" is ludicrous and I surely would not bother.

 

[Coffey]

As long as the tees are rated for both male and female players (meaning the women get extra shots when they play off the longer tees) it should not be an issue. But it also shouldn't be an issue if the women tee up from the ladie's tees they are used to (and on courses where the yellow or white tees are still not rated for female players, it's the only fair option). Because as doublebogey7 stated, that's how the handicap system works. But suggesting that the ladies should just tee off off the whites without any adaption to their handicap and "take their chances" is ludicrous and I surely would not bother.

I agree, women's handicap is calculated from the red tees, men's is from the white. Why would women suddenly change to the white tees if their handicap is not calculated from that distance. It makes no difference if men normally play from the yellow tees during their practice round as their handicap is still calculated off of the white tees.

 

[doublebogey7]

even though mens handicaps are calculated from the white tees there can still be a tremendous amount of movement in the white tee yardage. for eg the red tee's on the 3rd at my place are always on the same tee. the whites can be 180 yards to 230 yards. not a problem if we're all in the same boat

Your handicap though is calculated from this range, so have you thought that the advantage could lie with you and not your female opponent.
For a competetion to be qualifying the total length of the course can only vary by up to 100yds from the measured course. I don't see how this is significant enough to warrant dis-ollowing mixed events.

 

[lukeysafc100]

I like that! its pretty good! as long as everyone plays off the same tees!

 

[Dasit]

Sorry women playing off men's tees would be too slow.


I would not be against women playing from their own tees and entering men's comps.

 

[Capella]

Sorry women playing off men's tees would be too slow.


I would not be against women playing from their own tees and entering men's comps.

I don't think it will be that much of a difference. Yes, mixed groups will play slightly slower. If the women tee off off the men's tees, it will be slower because they will need more shots to cover the distance (shouldn't be more than one shot per hole max, though, don't know if that really makes things that much slower). If they tee off off the reds it will be slightly slower because the whole groups waits at two tee boxes instead of one. It is pretty miniscule, though. And on the plus side: because of the shorter distances they hit, women are less likely to lose their ball too far to the sides. In my experience, men tend to have to search for their balls more often, which slows things down way more than needing an extra shot per hole or teeing off from different tees.

 

[Copernicus]

Sorry but those putting these arguments can't understand the handicap system, assuming we are not talking scratch events here. A women playing from the tee's from which their handicap is calculated has as much change of shooting below/above their handicap as a man playing from the tee from which their handicap is calculated. The whole idea of the handicap system is to even the playing field up if you want complete "fairness" then only compete in scratch events.
I'll add that in my view these arguments are put in order to put obstacles in the way of truly mixed competition.

Is it possible then for a woman to have two handicaps calculated, one for off ladies tees one for men's?!! If not should it be to allow all players to play off same tees?

 

[rosecott]

even though mens handicaps are calculated from the white tees there can still be a tremendous amount of movement in the white tee yardage. for eg the red tee's on the 3rd at my place are always on the same tee. the whites can be 180 yards to 230 yards. not a problem if we're all in the same boat

As another poster said the white tee yardage cannot vary by over 100 yards. Perhaps you mean that the 180/230 yards is when you move from yellows to whites, in which case there will be a higher SSS when moving from yellows to whites.

 

[fundy]

I don't think it will be that much of a difference. Yes, mixed groups will play slightly slower. If the women tee off off the men's tees, it will be slower because they will need more shots to cover the distance (shouldn't be more than one shot per hole max, though, don't know if that really makes things that much slower). If they tee off off the reds it will be slightly slower because the whole groups waits at two tee boxes instead of one. It is pretty miniscule, though. And on the plus side: because of the shorter distances they hit, women are less likely to lose their ball too far to the sides. In my experience, men tend to have to search for their balls more often, which slows things down way more than needing an extra shot per hole or teeing off from different tees.

Sorry i dont get this. We play mixed comps, we walk off the green at which point the men walk to the mens tees and the women to the womens tees. The men then hit and walk up to the womens tee as they hit. Then they are all at the womens tee when the last player has hit. This should make it quicker than a normal mens 4 ball