Winter tee being used as comp tee.

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clubchamp98

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On one of our par 4s the winter tee is being used for all competitions.
This tee is 27yds behind the plate with the white tee yardage.
Is this ok under WHS as I am sure I heard somewhere that 10 yds was the maximum.
It’s been like this since April when the comps started.
There is nothing wrong with the white tee so it’s not a maintenance reason.
 

Colin L

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You have two separate issues here - the competition and the acceptability of scores. The course for a competition is set by the club and is entirely a local matter. It might be longer than usual, shorter than usual, have a hole out of use and a longer one divided into two temporary holes, a winter tee in play - whatever, as long as it is the same for all players. The conditions under which scores are acceptable for return is, however, governed by the sort of rules you are referring to. The course mustn't be shortened by more than 100 yards for 18 holes (50 yards for 9) and there mustn't be more than 2 temporary greens in play (1 for 9 holes) That is the CONGU direction in the Guidance on the WHS Rules and in those terms your course is well within the 100 yard limit assuming no other changes to length.

I share a memory that there was a 10 yard limit, on how far the teeing area should be from the distance point but see no reference to that in the WHS Rules or the CONGU Guidelines. Nor do I see it in the superseded CONGU manual on the UHS. That means either that it is recommended somewhere but does not apply as a restriction on acceptable scores or that I have completely missed something.
 

Imurg

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Having seen how many Greenkeepers seem to be fairly random with where they move tee markers to, I do wonder how many courses actually check to see if the movement of tees does fall into the requirements......
Only having 5 1/2 yards per hole to play with leads me to believe that a lot of courses are outside those requirements regularly
 

rulefan

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As 27 yards for the whites (and possibly more for other tees) could possibly make a change to the Course Rating it may be worth checking with the county. (eg making a 2 shot reach into a 3 shot reach).

Appendix G
f. Modification of Courses (i) Temporary Changes

The Handicap Committee must notify the Authorized Association when temporary changes are being made to the golf course that may affect the Course Rating. The Authorized Association will determine whether scores made under such conditions are acceptable for handicap purposes, and whether the Course Rating and Slope Rating should be modified temporarily.
Where a temporary Course Rating and Slope Rating has been issued, this information must be made available to players prior to the commencement of their round.
 
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From the WHS Rules it says "Should not " as opposed to "Must Not" place the teeing area more than 10 yards shorter or longer Appendix G section e final paragraph. The overall lenght of 100 yards is also a should not type of recommendation.

The front of a teeing area, as defined in the Rules of Golf, should not be placed more than 10 yards (10 metres) in front of, or behind, the relevant permanent distance marker on each hole. Overall, the golf course should not be shortened (or lengthened) by more than 100 yards (100 metres) from its measured length, to ensure accurate application of the Course Rating and Slope Rating in the calculation of players’ Score Differentials.

There is then a whole load of information on how to temporarily adjust the ratings for the overall course length.
 
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clubchamp98

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I believe the course can be up to 100 yards shorter than it’s measured length.
Yes it can but I thought that was over several holes.
There was a limit of 10 yds max per hole longer or shorter.
But as Colin has posted that might have been lost in the new guidelines.
So in theory a club could shorten or lengthen one hole 100yds.
 
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clubchamp98

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Having seen how many Greenkeepers seem to be fairly random with where they move tee markers to, I do wonder how many courses actually check to see if the movement of tees does fall into the requirements......
Only having 5 1/2 yards per hole to play with leads me to believe that a lot of courses are outside those requirements regularly
Yes the hole in question is a fairly short par four.
But the fairway is on quite a big slope ,it is designed to be hit with a short iron but this length changes the way the hole is played.
It gives players a three club difference. With a big slope ball above your feet ( right handed), massive drop off on the left and a hazard on the right.

This tee was constructed for winter play to a temp green but turns a fairly straight hole into a slight dog leg to a sloped fairway running away from you.
 

wjemather

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As above, the rules state "should" not "must" in relation to both the 10 and 100 yard limits, so clubs may not strictly adhere to them without actually breaking the rules and making scores unacceptable for handicapping. However, if it's a (semi-)permanent arrangement, which it sounds like it is in this case, it should be rated as a distinct set of tees if there is likely to be a resultant difference in ratings from the regular tee (which is probable).
 
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clubchamp98

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As above, the rules state "should" not "must" in relation to both the 10 and 100 yard limits, so clubs may not strictly adhere to them without actually breaking the rules and making scores unacceptable for handicapping. However, if it's a (semi-)permanent arrangement, which it sounds like it is in this case, it should be rated as a distinct set of tees if there is likely to be a resultant difference in ratings from the regular tee (which is probable).
Thanks for that.
It’s a strange one, every other green “ winter” tee is shorter than the main tees except this one.
It really changes the difficulty of the hole.
 

wjemather

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Thanks for that.
It’s a strange one, every other green “ winter” tee is shorter than the main tees except this one.
It really changes the difficulty of the hole.
In reality I would expect that because the difference is relatively small, if/when asked, the rating team would be likely to say "it's fine, carry on as you are with the white tee ratings" and they'll assess fully when visiting for your next scheduled rating.
 

Slab

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Similar thing is an irritation for me. Its not unusual to see tee markers moved to a completely different prepared teeing area (although I’m sure there’s good reason for it)

Hate it when general play tees are moved back to the plate for comp tees, particularly when I’ve decided to tee it forward, take the lower Course Handicap and then have to tee off on stroke 1 from the ‘comp’ tees anyway
 
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