Winter rules - lift, clean, replace

[ColchesterFC]

I asked this question in the "Would you say anything" thread in the Lounge but it got lost amongst a flurry of other answers.

If you are playing under winter rules and are able to lift, clean and replace your ball on the fairway do you have to physically mark the position of the ball with a tee peg/coin or similar or can you use an existing feature on the ground?

For example, if my ball comes to rest against a large worm cast on the fairway can I use the worm cast as the position of my ball before I lift it and replace it within 6 inches rather than sticking a tee in the ground?

 

[Spuddy]

I asked this question in the "Would you say anything" thread in the Lounge but it got lost amongst a flurry of other answers.

If you are playing under winter rules and are able to lift, clean and replace your ball on the fairway do you have to physically mark the position of the ball with a tee peg/coin or similar or can you use an existing feature on the ground?

For example, if my ball comes to rest against a large worm cast on the fairway can I use the worm cast as the position of my ball before I lift it and replace it within 6 inches rather than sticking a tee in the ground?

You can't use a mark already on the ground to mark your ball but you can use a loose impediment. Whatever you use, you should place it behind the ball.

as to whether you actually need to mark your ball will depend on the whether of the local rule. The specimen rule indicates that you do need to mark it.

 

[backwoodsman]

You can't use a mark already on the ground to mark your ball but you can use a loose impediment. Whatever you use, you should place it behind the ball.

as to whether you actually need to mark your ball will depend on the whether of the local rule. The specimen rule indicates that you do need to mark it.

^^^^ This.

See decision 20-1/16 which says you must physically mark the ball position and not use an existing mark. Clubs should use the specimen rule which requires the ball to be marked - but some might not do so, so you need to check.

 

[Smiffy]

I always mark with a tee peg irrespective of what any "local" rule might imply.
You can't fall foul then.

 

[chrisd]

I always mark with a tee peg irrespective of what any "local" rule might imply.
You can't fall foul then.

You are, indeed, a very wise man!

 

[bobmac]

You are, indeed, a very wise man!

I thought you've met Smiffy

 

[rulefan]

On the assumption that you are in the CONGU area the local rule must be exactly as in book

 

[backwoodsman]

On the assumption that you are in the CONGU area the local rule must be exactly as in book

Indeed & accepted.

But can you say for info - what would be the position if a club had not copied the wording correctly. For example, how would a player stand if they preferred the lie without marking if the club had not included the bit about marking?

 

[Spuddy]

Indeed & accepted.

But can you say for info - what would be the position if a club had not copied the wording correctly. For example, how would a player stand if they preferred the lie without marking if the club had not included the bit about marking?

You play to the rule, even if it is non conforming. If it doesn't say you need to mark it then you don't as under the general rules you only need to mark a ball that is to be replaced on the spot where it is lifted from. eg. If you are lifting a ball to be moved from an abnormal ground condition then there's no need to mark (although it is considered best practice to prevent any confusion)

 

[Region3]

Whatever you use, you should place it behind the ball

I always stick my tee in the ground in front of the ball, so that I know if I stay behind the tee I can't be nearer the hole.

Am I breaking the rule?

 

[Spuddy]

I always stick my tee in the ground in front of the ball, so that I know if I stay behind the tee I can't be nearer the hole.

Am I breaking the rule?

No. The rule says you should, not must.

That being said, I don't quite follow your logic. if you mark in front (say a 1/2 inch) and use this as a reference point to judge whether you are closer the hole then there's a possibility that you might end up being marginally closer (0-1/2 an inch). If you mark behind and the new ball position is behind this mark then you'll never be closer.

 

[WinBase]

I always mark with a tee peg irrespective of what any "local" rule might imply.
You can't fall foul then.

Me too - at one time I got into a bad habit of using what was available or just using a feature on the ground until my regular PP told me off and said I knew better - now its always a tee peg

 

[rulie]

No. The rule says you should, not must.

That being said, I don't quite follow your logic. if you mark in front (say a 1/2 inch) and use this as a reference point to judge whether you are closer the hole then there's a possibility that you might end up being marginally closer (0-1/2 an inch). If you mark behind and the new ball position is behind this mark then you'll never be closer.

The original post said "lift, clean and REPLACE". That means to replace at the exact spot from which the ball was lifted. One half-inch is not on the exact spot and would be a wrong place.

 

[Colin L]

The original post said "lift, clean and REPLACE”.......

A good point. There is, of course, a local rule available for muddy conditions allowing the ball to be lifted, cleaned and replaced [Appendix I 4b]. If that were the local rule in place, then the ball must be marked before it is lifted [Rule 20-1].

The OP, however, refers to “winter rules” (also called “preferred lies”) where the ball would be placed within a stated distance of where it came to rest [Appendix I 4c] and all the previous replies are in that context.

I suspect replaced was just a slip, and the OP did mean preferred lies. It’s a useful reminder to keep the two local rules distinct.

 

[rulefan]

If the words do not conform exactly to the specimen rule, the competition will be non-qualifying.

 

[WinBase]

The original post said "lift, clean and REPLACE". That means to replace at the exact spot from which the ball was lifted. One half-inch is not on the exact spot and would be a wrong place.

we know it as lift, clean and place (not REplace) and we get 6" no nearer the hole