WHS working well for me

Old Skier

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True, but even if I did, and it was accepted, it wouldn’t solve the problem. The person could be playing in opens, or be playing in inter club matches, etc.
The point is that the system should not allow it.
Clubs do have tools at there disposal to sort some of these problems which we use. We use divisions and for team comps as the majority of our comps are drawn we use the balanced draw facilties. All the issues you raise can be addressed easily by a proactive comps committee without the need to stop anyone entering a comp.
 

Orikoru

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It's definitely not 'working well' for me. I moved from a 131 slope course with a very easy greens, to a 117 slope course with impossible greens. My scores have been about the same, but thanks to the ridiculous slope rating difference, I need to shoot 5 to 6 shots better at my new course for WHS to rate it the same. There's an 82 at my old course going off my last 20 in two rounds time, so it looks like I need to shoot 77 in one of the Club Champ rounds this weekend. Absolutely zero chance of that. The slope ratings are a joke.
 
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jim8flog

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Everyone’s circumstances are different. For some you are right but for others, who perhaps don’t play quite as often, some who are learning so don’t want to register every round as they will be being coached round and trying new things, and perhaps some who are finding it a bit harder to meet people to sign a card for them (especially with reduction of roll-ups) 8 rounds could take a while.

Would 8 rounds make a difference? I’ve just played my 7th. My index after 7 is actually 2.3 higher than it was after 3, as I’ve not got any substantially better rounds in after my 3, and lost the -2 adjustment.

It’s a good discussion and the points you are making are interesting. From my end of (in)experience, I think the system is pretty good and I can’t see the increased number of cards requirement before being allowed to compete making much difference.
You will not have what is considered to be a full handicap record until you have 20 cards in and some of the aspects of the WHS do not apply until you reach that number.

To have a reasonably stable H.I. your target should be at least 17 cards.

if you do not know the calculations that apply to you

7 to 8 Average of the lowest 2
9 to 11 Average of the lowest 3
12 to 14 Average of the lowest 4
15-16 Average of the lowest 5
17-18 Average of the lowest 6
19 Average of the lowest 7
20 or more Average of the lowest 8
 

pauljames87

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It's definitely not 'working well' for me. I moved from a 131 slope course with a very easy greens, to a 117 slope course with impossible greens. My scores have been about the same, but thanks to the ridiculous slope rating difference, I need to shoot 5 to 6 shots better at my new course for WHS to rate it the same. There's an 82 at my old course going off my last 20 in two rounds time, so it looks like I need to shoot 77 in one of the Club Champ rounds this weekend. Absolutely zero chance of that. The slope ratings are a joke.
What's the course rating tho? That's far more important
 

Orikoru

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What's the course rating tho? That's far more important
Old course rating is 68.3, slope 131 (par 68).
New one is 67.2, slope 117 (par 69).

The slope is obviously what makes the difference, because I have a counting score of 90 from my old course, and a non-counting score of 85 from the new course. That difference is ridiculous, there is no way on this earth that my new course is over 5 shots easier. It's just not. Something is wrong in those ratings.
 

pauljames87

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Old course rating is 68.3, slope 131 (par 68).
New one is 67.2, slope 117 (par 69).

The slope is obviously what makes the difference, because I have a counting score of 90 from my old course, and a non-counting score of 85 from the new course. That difference is ridiculous, there is no way on this earth that my new course is over 5 shots easier. It's just not. Something is wrong in those ratings.
So old course course rating is just a bit over par so

New course is 1 shot longer but it's rating is 2 almost 2 shots easier than par

It's like us off whites both par 72 .. slope 117 and 121 get one extra shot

But rating is 71.8 for yellow and 74.2 for whites so a good score off whites looks even better when adjusted than a yellow score
 

pauljames87

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Old course rating is 68.3, slope 131 (par 68).
New one is 67.2, slope 117 (par 69).

The slope is obviously what makes the difference, because I have a counting score of 90 from my old course, and a non-counting score of 85 from the new course. That difference is ridiculous, there is no way on this earth that my new course is over 5 shots easier. It's just not. Something is wrong in those ratings.
It's worth also remember slope isn't difficulty

It's the difference in score between a scratch golfer and a bogey golfer ..

So your new course might punish them the same

Ours does for example .. links style both low and high players have equal chance of punishment
 

Orikoru

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So old course course rating is just a bit over par so

New course is 1 shot longer but it's rating is 2 almost 2 shots easier than par

It's like us off whites both par 72 .. slope 117 and 121 get one extra shot

But rating is 71.8 for yellow and 74.2 for whites so a good score off whites looks even better when adjusted than a yellow score
Well, as I said, it's Club Champs this weekend, so two rounds. An 82 on my old course will drop off my record. So in theory I could probably go and shoot 80 on both days, win the net medal prize by being 6* under, and my handicap would stay the same as it was. :ROFLMAO:

*edit: actually 8 under
 

pauljames87

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Well, as I said, it's Club Champs this weekend, so two rounds. An 82 on my old course will drop off my record. So in theory I could probably go and shoot 80 on both days, win the net medal prize by being 6 under, and my handicap would stay the same as it was. :ROFLMAO:
Now don't be silly you won't be shooting that 😜
 

Orikoru

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It's worth also remember slope isn't difficulty

It's the difference in score between a scratch golfer and a bogey golfer ..

So your new course might punish them the same

Ours does for example .. links style both low and high players have equal chance of punishment
It doesn't matter what wording you use, it's still effectively the higher the slope the more difficult the course in layman's terms. Because I get more shots if the slope is higher. 🤷🏻‍♂️ The main difficulty at my new club is the greens, and I think typically it is higher handicappers who don't putt as well.
 

pauljames87

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It doesn't matter what wording you use, it's still effectively the higher the slope the more difficult the course in layman's terms. Because I get more shots if the slope is higher. 🤷🏻‍♂️ The main difficulty at my new club is the greens, and I think typically it is higher handicappers who don't putt as well.
Don't get me started its blooming annoying I get more shots at course I can hit better round lol but hey ho

All because the "world" handicap system is done differently in England lol

We use Americans OLD system and they use a slightly new equation that puts course rating into it aswell

Under that I'd get more shots at my own club than the one down road but under this system other way round

And my course is one the hardest around in people's opinions
 
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jim8flog

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It doesn't matter what wording you use, it's still effectively the higher the slope the more difficult the course in layman's terms. Because I get more shots if the slope is higher. 🤷🏻‍♂️ The main difficulty at my new club is the greens, and I think typically it is higher handicappers who don't putt as well.
If I changed courses I would aim to get in as many cards as quickly as possible so that my handicap index reflected the new course rather than the old one.

We have two courses where I play and intend never to submit any cards of one of them simply because it is so easy compared to other (it is reflected somewhat in the Slope rating).
 

Orikoru

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If I changed courses I would aim to get in as many cards as quickly as possible so that my handicap index reflected the new course rather than the old one.

We have two courses where I play and intend never to submit any cards of one of them simply because it is so easy compared to other (it is reflected somewhat in the Slope rating).
I'm still of the view that I only want to enter competition rounds, and I've done three comps since everything opened up in April, shooting 87, 85 & 90. Two more cards going in this weekend though, as mentioned.

Doing loads of cards straight away would have been a terrible idea, unless I wanted my handicap to skyrocket. It's taken me this long to start getting used to the greens and not be hitting 38 putts per round!
 
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It doesn't matter what wording you use, it's still effectively the higher the slope the more difficult the course in layman's terms. Because I get more shots if the slope is higher. 🤷🏻‍♂️ The main difficulty at my new club is the greens, and I think typically it is higher handicappers who don't putt as well.
Have you not hit the nail on the head why the slope is fairly low. The difficulty is the greens so there's you answer.

Putting should be a level playing field between low and high handicaps, a 20 foot putt is a 20 foot putt.
I'm still of the view that I only want to enter competition rounds, and I've done three comps since everything opened up in April, shooting 87, 85 & 90. Two more cards going in this weekend though, as mentioned.

Doing loads of cards straight away would have been a terrible idea, unless I wanted my handicap to skyrocket. It's taken me this long to start getting used to the greens and not be hitting 38 putts per round!
But then your handicap would reflect your current ability.

It can also come down just as quickly when you find form.

Two examples of how it can work:
My mate has gone from 2.7 to 4.6
I have gone from 5.7 to 3.0

We have had similar handicaps for years, I have come into form this season after a couple of bad years and he is doing the opposite at present but we are both putting plenty of cards in.
 

Orikoru

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Have you not hit the nail on the head why the slope is fairly low. The difficulty is the greens so there's you answer.

Putting should be a level playing field between low and high handicaps, a 20 foot putt is a 20 foot putt.


But then your handicap would reflect your current ability.

It can also come down just as quickly when you find form.

Two examples of how it can work:
My mate has gone from 2.7 to 4.6
I have gone from 5.7 to 3.0

We have had similar handicaps for years, I have come into form this season after a couple of bad years and he is doing the opposite at present but we are both putting plenty of cards in.
My non-comp rounds I like to experiment, hit daft shots, we have generous gimmes on occasions, take drops from not strictly the correct location.. I just can't get my head around the idea of these all counting towards our handicaps. o_O
 

Imurg

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My non-comp rounds I like to experiment, hit daft shots, we have generous gimmes on occasions, take drops from not strictly the correct location.. I just can't get my head around the idea of these all counting towards our handicaps. o_O
They wouldn't because you're not playing strictly to the rules but there's nothing to stop you putting in, say, 1 out of 3..just play that one as if it were a comp.
 

rulefan

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It's definitely not 'working well' for me. I moved from a 131 slope course with a very easy greens, to a 117 slope course with impossible greens. My scores have been about the same, but thanks to the ridiculous slope rating difference, I need to shoot 5 to 6 shots better at my new course for WHS to rate it the same. There's an 82 at my old course going off my last 20 in two rounds time, so it looks like I need to shoot 77 in one of the Club Champ rounds this weekend. Absolutely zero chance of that. The slope ratings are a joke.
It seems you really don't understand Slope. You can't compare the slope of one course with the slope of another.
The basic difficulty of a course is the Course Rating. The slope ONLY tells you the relative difficulty of a specific course for higher handicapper as opposed to a lower handicapper.

131 vs 117 tells you absolutely zilch. What are the Course Ratings of both courses?
 

Orikoru

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It seems you really don't understand Slope. You can't compare the slope of one course with the slope of another.
The basic difficulty of a course is the Course Rating. The slope ONLY tells you the relative difficulty of a specific course for higher handicapper as opposed to a lower handicapper.

131 vs 117 tells you absolutely zilch. What are the Course Ratings of both courses?
Please see post #86.
 
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