WHS working well for me

Lord Tyrion

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I'm surprised at some of the hostility about the new system. It is surely more representative of how you are playing. It doesn't account for an exceptional round but by the nature of averaging your best 8 it's closer to how you are playing week in week out. If your handicap is going up there's a reason for it, same if it goes down. It's closer to reality than the old system.

For what it's worth, the people I tend to play with are all very happy with the system, like how it smooths things out. No, by the way, none of us have won anything with dodgy scores 😄
 

Imurg

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I think the system works as long as cards are going in regularly
All my 20 are from the last 3 months
There are people who haven't put 20 cards in during the last 3 years.
Whigh makes my handicap relatively accurate and theirs as accurately depicting current form as the old system.
That's where these ridiculous scores are coming from.
You almost have 2 systems running, especially as there is no requirement to put cards in to keep an index accurate.
 

saving_par

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I think the system works as long as cards are going in regularly
All my 20 are from the last 3 months
There are people who haven't put 20 cards in during the last 3 years.
Whigh makes my handicap relatively accurate and theirs as accurately depicting current form as the old system.
That's where these ridiculous scores are coming from.
You almost have 2 systems running, especially as there is no requirement to put cards in to keep an index accurate.
Strangely most of the ridiculous scores at my place are coming from golfers with a lengthy handicap record.

Appears they have multiple car crash rounds then somehow manage to to come in with something silly.

If I was playing crap I go and sort it out, either through hard graft practising or get a lesson or two. If you play a lot of golf and don't really care about playing rubbish you can put enough cards in to get several shots back quickly and suddenly you have a good day and clean up.

I think this is a bit of an unintended consequence of WHS, regular bad play can get rewarded. I used to think my absolute best golf had a chance to win a club comp, now it would take beating the course record which is well beyond me.
 

Swango1980

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Strangely most of the ridiculous scores at my place are coming from golfers with a lengthy handicap record.

Appears they have multiple car crash rounds then somehow manage to to come in with something silly.

If I was playing crap I go and sort it out, either through hard graft practising or get a lesson or two. If you play a lot of golf and don't really care about playing rubbish you can put enough cards in to get several shots back quickly and suddenly you have a good day and clean up.

I think this is a bit of an unintended consequence of WHS, regular bad play can get rewarded. I used to think my absolute best golf had a chance to win a club comp, now it would take beating the course record which is well beyond me.
This is something I was worried about pre WHS. There are players, who when after a few bad holes (as early as the front 9), basically give up. They feel they cannot win, and just lose all competitive urge. Mess about, back hand putts, etc. This can lead to many car crash rounds, rounds they may well have saved if they kept their head and had a strong back 9.

This could lead to an inflated handicap Index, particularly if they are hugely inconsistent and any of these rounds slip into their top 8. It means that, on 10 to 20% of rounds where they play well throughout the round, they can shoot much more under their Index. Compare to the perfectly consistent golfer whose top 8 scores are all level par (we'll say course rating also level par). Then their best score in 20 is still only 36 points.

I guess my biggest concern would be big scores from new golfers, especially those with high initial handicaps. But I'm more interested to see if there will be issues with very inconsistent golfers, as you have potentially seen. WHS may possibly reward golfers for putting the handbreak on as soon as they feel they cannot win, if they are that way inclined.
 

IanM

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Yep. We have had low and high handicappers have the pattern of slump then, clean up when they get a shot or two back.

These are also folk who play lots of recorded rounds.

My 20 still has 2020 rounds in it, its called working for a living. Mind you, only 5 weeks of that left!! :D:D
 

woofers

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No surprise there’s a bit of whinging going on here. In any system there will be some people trying to “game it”, it just reflects their nature.
My take on WHS is that it’s an improvement on the old system, properly used it reflects your current ability whereas the old system reflected your potential, for instance one good round could result in a swingeing cut whereas the new system requires more consistency of low rounds to have a similar effect.
Vanity handicappers are now finding out that they‘re not really single figure golfers.
 

saving_par

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No surprise there’s a bit of whinging going on here. In any system there will be some people trying to “game it”, it just reflects their nature.
My take on WHS is that it’s an improvement on the old system, properly used it reflects your current ability whereas the old system reflected your potential, for instance one good round could result in a swingeing cut whereas the new system requires more consistency of low rounds to have a similar effect.
Vanity handicappers are now finding out that they‘re not really single figure golfers.
I don't believe people are 'gaming' the system at my club. Simply a case of certain handicap groups having a good knock after a sustained spell of rubbish which resulted in a handfull of shots back.

Find the heather or gorse a few times a round or be clueless about chopping it out sideways when in the crap and a cricket score results. Suddenly a round of hitting fairways and low and behold, a nett 61 or 48/49 points and happy days.

Steady golf is a waste of time and I think WHS has produced more 'vanity' handicaps than the old system. Mine is currently lower than its ever been and i have been playing 40 odd years. There is no way on earth I'm a 3 handicapper. Never lower than 3.8 under the old system and 5.4 WHS came in.
 

Backsticks

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This is something I was worried about pre WHS. There are players, who when after a few bad holes (as early as the front 9), basically give up. They feel they cannot win, and just lose all competitive urge. Mess about, back hand putts, etc. This can lead to many car crash rounds, rounds they may well have saved if they kept their head and had a strong back 9.
This is natural though, and is a potentil weakness of the WHS compared to Congu. You cannot blame anyone for not trying their best to score 26 points instead of 25 - people start working on their swings, their mind is already on other things, or they are just having a laugh with their playing partners rather than focusing on getting that 4 ft putt. We all do it all the time. WHS hc increases as a result, whereas the Congu one was unaffected. Once the point 1 was done, it didnt matter. But does it really affect the WHS handicap - these rounds are unlikely to ever make their 8 rounds from 20 ? So not sure that the messing you describe has a practical effect.
 

IanMcC

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I'd agree with some of the comments here, the whs has done nothing for me and I'm erring towards just not playing comps any longer.

I used to love trying to get my handicap down and saving a score with a buffer.

But now I'm in the position of my handicap being too low, off 2.6, which tbh I wouldn't have had a hope in hells chance of getting to under the old system. I was off 5 ish for the last 8 or so years and I won a couple of silver trophys in that time and a couple of knock outs and the club handicap champs. But now with my club having a lot of plus figure players, I don't stand any chance in any of the gross comps since they changes the course and now with a load of guys who were all mid teen handicaps all getting 4 and sometimes 5 shots more shotsvthan under the old system I don't stand a chance in any of the handicap comps either now. Played it a few seniors comp as well this year and tbh don't stand much of a chance there either as only a couple a gross prize all I've played this year have been won by 20 something handicaps shooting 90plus. I have never entered any comp with the thought of winning but at least I thought I had a chance, now I'd have to shoot well under par gross to compete. One of my mates shot his best score to date at the weekend, 69 gross 2 under par and 4 under the course rating, didn't win, said that was the best he could play and had ever played.
Without any hint of malice towards you, patricks148, this post just about sums up everything I don't like about ageing 'so called' golfers!

1. Play 20 rounds and refresh your index if you think its wrong.
2. Your CONGU 5ish probably equates to about a shot or 2 more than you have now, so what's the big deal?
3. You proudly rattle your trophies. Meaningless.
4. You 'never enter a comp with a thought of winning', but are considering giving up the game because you cannot win any more. Go figure!
5. You are getting older. Just face it.
6. Gross was gross before and after WHS, so don't blame WHS on your plight.

You either love playing the game, or you don't. I believe you love winning instead. Again, no offence, but you should change your attitude or find a new sport, I feel.
 

Backsticks

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I think the system works as long as cards are going in regularly
All my 20 are from the last 3 months
There are people who haven't put 20 cards in during the last 3 years.
You are a real outlier though with 20 in 3 months. Most even quite active golfers will not reach 20 cards in a year. I think a dozen singles a year is about average (they will be playing plenty more competitions though - interclub, teams, matchplays, fourballs, etc). 20 cards in 3 years is a significant portion of the active handicap golfing population I would say. So are you really saying the system doesnt work ?
 

patricks148

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Without any hint of malice towards you, patricks148, this post just about sums up everything I don't like about ageing 'so called' golfers!

1. Play 20 rounds and refresh your index if you think its wrong.
2. Your CONGU 5ish probably equates to about a shot or 2 more than you have now, so what's the big deal?
3. You proudly rattle your trophies. Meaningless.
4. You 'never enter a comp with a thought of winning', but are considering giving up the game because you cannot win any more. Go figure!
5. You are getting older. Just face it.
6. Gross was gross before and after WHS, so don't blame WHS on your plight.

You either love playing the game, or you don't. I believe you love winning instead. Again, no offence, but you should change your attitude or find a new sport, I feel.
No hint of malice, really you can't help slipping in a few personal digs though??
I'd read what people write before jumping in if I were you, I not once said I was giving up, or blamed whs for the gross prize being out of reach. The 5 handicap off the old system eqated to at least 3 shots more.

As for 20 new scores, I've played more than that this year, the fact the poor ones don't count is a factor as quoted by others in the thread, but don't let this and the other points get in the way of your.... digs🙄
 

Swango1980

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This is natural though, and is a potentil weakness of the WHS compared to Congu. You cannot blame anyone for not trying their best to score 26 points instead of 25 - people start working on their swings, their mind is already on other things, or they are just having a laugh with their playing partners rather than focusing on getting that 4 ft putt. We all do it all the time. WHS hc increases as a result, whereas the Congu one was unaffected. Once the point 1 was done, it didnt matter. But does it really affect the WHS handicap - these rounds are unlikely to ever make their 8 rounds from 20 ? So not sure that the messing you describe has a practical effect.
I'm sure we've all had rounds where we start terribly, but then have an amazing back 9 and end up with a good, if not very good score. I've been 6 or 7 over after 4 or 5 holes before, then been 1 or 2 under for rest of round to beat handicap. A score that would easily get into my top 8. I guess I just start to relax, find a rhythm and start getting on a role. However, players who decide to mentally give up (and, you are right, I don't blame them, it is a natural reaction for many), will end up with a very bad score. It doesn't get in their top 8 when it could have, thus higher Index.

Furthermore, if they have this attitude for over 60% of rounds, these bad rounds actually start creeping into their top 8 for an ever bigger impact.
 
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I don't believe people are 'gaming' the system at my club. Simply a case of certain handicap groups having a good knock after a sustained spell of rubbish which resulted in a handfull of shots back.

Find the heather or gorse a few times a round or be clueless about chopping it out sideways when in the crap and a cricket score results. Suddenly a round of hitting fairways and low and behold, a nett 61 or 48/49 points and happy days.

Steady golf is a waste of time and I think WHS has produced more 'vanity' handicaps than the old system. Mine is currently lower than its ever been and i have been playing 40 odd years. There is no way on earth I'm a 3 handicapper. Never lower than 3.8 under the old system and 5.4 WHS came in.
100% this, nearly every golfer 4 and under in the old system was cut over the winter, we'd one +2 went to +4 without a ball being struck.
 
Joined
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Without any hint of malice towards you, patricks148, this post just about sums up everything I don't like about ageing 'so called' golfers!

1. Play 20 rounds and refresh your index if you think its wrong.
2. Your CONGU 5ish probably equates to about a shot or 2 more than you have now, so what's the big deal?
3. You proudly rattle your trophies. Meaningless.
4. You 'never enter a comp with a thought of winning', but are considering giving up the game because you cannot win any more. Go figure!
5. You are getting older. Just face it.
6. Gross was gross before and after WHS, so don't blame WHS on your plight.

You either love playing the game, or you don't. I believe you love winning instead. Again, no offence, but you should change your attitude or find a new sport, I feel.
Sport & winning eh, whudda thunk that was a bad thing? Let's be honest here, 99% of players are hoping to win every time you tee off.

I remember being at a golf day many years ago at Beau Desert (may have been a GM day actually), blind draw for teams, think we were second last off, 4 man am-am format, one of our team proudly announces on the first tee, "I'm not here to compete, I'm just here for the day out"....aye, Mod edit
 
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Orikoru

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I am afraid I could be viewed as a sand bagger as I have not put any cards in since July 10th, nor played any medals. The reason being I play late afternoon or early evening on my own or the the day in the weekend I have is a match play round.
I get few weekends free as the wife has a shoot or there is some family get together.

The last match play round I was asked how I managed to get my handicap up and brutally honest I played poorly in all the competitions I played.
I don’t want to put a card in when I am rolling up, it won’t overly change my handicap as I have 8 pretty low scores that at my best I am 1 or 2 shots below and at my worst 10 shots above!
Mine's the same, last card I put in was July 3rd, but then I'm still only doing competition rounds. I've no interest in handing in cards from my friendly rounds as I don't want them to matter, I prefer to be relaxed and not worried about where I take a drop from or picking the ball up for gimme. My oldest 'top 8' round is from Feb 2020. And my best round recently was 12 over par at an away course, but when I play an away course now I just want to enjoy the day and not care about the score so I don't put those in either.

I've not entered many comps lately because they've got rid of the booking system and I don't want to turn up before 9am so I'm screwed on that front anyway. Who knows when I'll be able to enter another one. Oh and on top of that, in a couple of months my club will be starting work on a couple of holes and apparently the course might be playing as only 16 holes over winter so won't count for handicap anyway or something. So I guess my handicap is frozen for a while.
 

Swango1980

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Mine's the same, last card I put in was July 3rd, but then I'm still only doing competition rounds. I've no interest in handing in cards from my friendly rounds as I don't want them to matter, I prefer to be relaxed and not worried about where I take a drop from or picking the ball up for gimme. My oldest 'top 8' round is from Feb 2020. And my best round recently was 12 over par at an away course, but when I play an away course now I just want to enjoy the day and not care about the score so I don't put those in either.

I've not entered many comps lately because they've got rid of the booking system and I don't want to turn up before 9am so I'm screwed on that front anyway. Who knows when I'll be able to enter another one. Oh and on top of that, in a couple of months my club will be starting work on a couple of holes and apparently the course might be playing as only 16 holes over winter so won't count for handicap anyway or something. So I guess my handicap is frozen for a while.
Do your comps not have a draw, so that you know the time you are teeing off before you turn up?
 
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