WHS scoring

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Midnight

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If a course switches to 13 hole comps during winter, can you still put a score in for WHS?

Cheers

Midnight.
 

Backsticks

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If conditions are qualifying, and the course is rated for the first 9 that you play, as a nine, then I guess you can. The last 4 holes then only count for your competition.
 

Colin L

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Yes. The minimum number of holes for an acceptable score is 10. [Rule 2.2a WHS Rules of Handicapping] The holes not played will be scored as net par +1 for the first one and net par for the remainder.
 
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Midnight

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Yes. The minimum number of holes for an acceptable score is 10. [Rule 2.2a WHS Rules of Handicapping] The holes not played will be scored as net par +1 for the first one and net par for the remainder.
Thank you for the info mate, much appreciated ??????
 

rulefan

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Yes. The minimum number of holes for an acceptable score is 10. [Rule 2.2a WHS Rules of Handicapping] The holes not played will be scored as net par +1 for the first one and net par for the remainder.
That is for an 18 hole score. However, 9 holes may be played for a 9 hole score, provided the 9 holes have a 9 hole rating.
In addition, if at least 14 holes are played for an 18 hole score then the score is scaled up to 18 by adding net par to all the holes not played.

See 2.2b and 3.2
 

Colin L

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That is for an 18 hole score. However, 9 holes may be played for a 9 hole score, provided the 9 holes have a 9 hole rating.
In addition, if at least 14 holes are played for an 18 hole score then the score is scaled up to 18 by adding net par to all the holes not played.

See 2.2b and 3.2
My reply was specific to the OP's question about a 13 hole round.

Bute here's an oddity. Rule 3.2 of the Rules of Handicapping on the Scottish Golf website does not say anything about a cut-off 14 hole cut-off. I've not noticed that before.

Screenshot 2022-11-12 at 18.51.18.png
 

jim8flog

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My reply was specific to the OP's question about a 13 hole round.

Bute here's an oddity. Rule 3.2 of the Rules of Handicapping on the Scottish Golf website does not say anything about a cut-off 14 hole cut-off. I've not noticed that before.

View attachment 45121
This is the England Rule 3.3.

Where the minimum number of holes has been completed and the reason for a
player not playing a hole is valid, the player must use the following table to
produce an 18-hole score:


At least 10 holes Scale up to 18-hole score
Add net par plus one additional
stroke for the first hole not
played (or equivalent Stableford
points).

At least 14 holes Scale up to 18-hole score
Add net par (or equivalent
Stableford points).
 

rulefan

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My reply was specific to the OP's question about a 13 hole round.

Bute here's an oddity. Rule 3.2 of the Rules of Handicapping on the Scottish Golf website does not say anything about a cut-off 14 hole cut-off. I've not noticed that before.

View attachment 45121
I did realise that Colin.
I'm working with the England Golf handbook which has an extra row in the table.

Edit: I didn't press the Save button last night and now see jim8flog has in effect done it for me
 

Colin L

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This is the England Rule 3.3....
Thanks both. I didn't have any issue with what rulefan said about the 14 hole category as that was my own recollection from WHS training. But then I noticed it was missing from my file copy which I downloaded from the SG website and checked out the England Golf version and then Golf Wales, then the USGA , then Golf Canada .....and gave up looking before I reached Australia as they were all the same.

I've asked* SG for confirmation that the calculation is different here.

*I can't bring myself to use the more fashionable "I've reached out to" :rolleyes:
 

Colin L

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I can confirm that there is an error in the printing of Rule 3.2 in the Scottish copy of the rules on the SG website. There is no difference here in Scotland in scaling up when more than 14 holes have been played: net par +1 is not applied. The mistake will be sorted.
 
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To be acceptable for handicapping purposes then comps must be run over 9 or 18 holes - you could only enter 14 holes and use net par/+1 if there was an unforseen reason for not playing the last 4 holes eg illness.

Acceptable Scores – Winter Competitions
To run Competitions and want scores to be acceptable for Handicap Purposes:
  • Competitions must be run over 9 or 18 Holes.
  • Rounds must be played in accordance with Rule 2.1 of the Rules of Handicapping Page 26.
  • Preferred lies are allowable under the guidance below.
  • Scaling up is allowed in accordance with Rule 3.2 of the Rules of Handicapping (Page 36/37).
If a Club cannot run Competitions that are acceptable for Handicap Purposes, it can still run Non-acceptable Competitions that can be set up using Club Software or Manually to record Scores and Winners.
The following procedure is quite permissible, and several Clubs are following similar ones.
Non-Acceptable Scores – Winter Competitions
To run Competitions where scores are not acceptable for Handicap Purposes, but where results can be processed, a neutral slope of 113 and a Course rating equal to the Par of the holes being played can be used.
This will mean a Chart to generate the Course Handicap is not required (i.e., your Course Handicap is your rounded Handicap Index). The scores cannot be Acceptable for handicap purposes, but it does allow non-qualifying competitions to be run during this period (lockdown notwithstanding).
    • If your Club uses Software to run the competition you can follow the guidelines within the software to cater for unrated courses.
    • If your Club runs its competitions manually, you can use the Handicap Index as the basis for the calculation of a Course Handicap and/or Playing Handicap which should then be adjusted relative to the number of holes being played.
 
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Can you give a reference to the source of the above, please?
Rule 2.1 states that A score is acceptable for handicap purposes if the round has been played:
l In an authorized format of play(seeRule2.1a)over at least the minimum number of holes required for either a 9-hole OR an 18-hole score to be acceptable (see Rule 2.2),
Rule 2.1a is simply a table of comps in which last two columns state 9 and 18 for number of holes!

there isn’t a rule that says you can play 12 or 14 holes but in an England Golf WHS meeting (before it was launched) we were shown a table of acceptable comp formats and it said 9 and 18 holes. Someone at the meeting asked about how/if they would record 12 hole comps for their seniors and they were told that England Golf only recognises 9 and 18 hole comps. The England Golf person said that they are aware some sections do run shorter comps but these wouldn’t be acceptable for handicap purposes. The same guy then said they would make them 14 holes instead and tell players to use the DNP option but England Golf ruses person said no - it was for no - it was if sinejne had to leave for illness or emergency.

i also remember that Ruth Goodwin, Yorkshire Handicap Secretary sent us out an email early last season saying it had been noted (I don’t know where) that there were a lot of players putting DNP for last holes and a reminder that it should be a rare circumstance that someone is not playing all holes…. but I can’t find that email!! I’ll have another look tomorrow!

the paragraph I copied above is from
https://www.my-golf.uk/world-handicap-system-whs-winter-golf/
 

rulefan

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Run the formal WHS comp a a 9 hole format for handicapping and play extra holes for the internal competition result. (ie an extra 3 for a 12 hole result).

My club has had approval to play 17 holes and return DNS for one hole that is currently out of play. We do have a 'spare' hole but it is not rated.
 

Colin L

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Thanks for that. I'm surprised to read that EG is said to have said that a round must be 18 or 9 holes in the winter. But I'm a bit dubious about the basis of what you're saying. What, for example, was said to someone at a meeting and brought back to their club is too prone to misunderstandings as it depends too much on the question asked, the understanding of the answer, and the recollection of what was said. Been there; done it etc. My own recollection of WHS training sessions is different on the matter but my recollections are notoriously unreliable. And so I turn to primary sources.

Competitions over fewer than 18 holes are sanctioned by the Rules of Golf and if a competition round comprises a minimum of 10 holes, scores are acceptable for handicapping. That's what I get from the Definition of a round in the Rules of Golf as "18 or fewer holes played in the order set by the Committee" and from Rules 2.1 and 2.2 of the WHS Rules. I don't see any qualification of what is an acceptable score because of the time of year in either the WHS Rules or the CONGU Guidance. The Committee may run a competition of between 10 and 17 holes and the scores will be acceptable.

I'd suggest that the WHS rules around not playing a hole concern an individual's missing out a hole in the stipulated round. They are strict about what are acceptable reasons - giving up because it's cold/you're playing rubbish/you want a beer/etc being rightly unacceptable. But they do not govern what the stipulated round is. These rules would apply equally to missing out a hole in a 15 hole round as an 18 hole one. And in any case, missing out a hole for an invalid reason doesn't in itself render your score unacceptable. For handicapping it would be counted as a nett double bogey instead of net par.

Can anyone point to a direct statement from EG that scores on a measured and rated course from a competition in which the stipulated round is fewer than 18 holes are not acceptable for handicapping because it is winter time? I'd be surprised and a bit dismayed if there is one but it would put me right.
 

rulefan

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Can anyone point to a direct statement from EG that scores on a measured and rated course from a competition in which the stipulated round is fewer than 18 holes are not acceptable for handicapping because it is winter time? I'd be surprised and a bit dismayed if there is one but it would put me right.
Colin
I guess you were typing when I posted the last paragraph in #15. This was specifically approve by EG. They suggested it wasn't worth the County coming out just to rate the 'spare' temporary hole.
 

Colin L

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Colin
I guess you were typing when I posted the last paragraph in #15. This was specifically approve by EG. They suggested it wasn't worth the County coming out just to rate the 'spare' temporary hole.
Yes. But I'm puzzled by LizAig's understanding that EG has stated that winter rounds must be 18 or 9 holes when the Rules of Golf allow the Committee to stipulate fewer than 18 holes for a competition and the WHS Rules accept scores over a minimum of 10 holes for handicapping.

And now I'm puzzled as to why you needed approval of 17 hole scores. A hole out of play is even specified in the examples of valid reasons for not playing a hole.

Hoping for illumination.
 

rulefan

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And now I'm puzzled as to why you needed approval of 17 hole scores. A hole out of play is even specified in the examples of valid reasons for not playing a hole.
I wasn't involved. It seems our assistant manager was speaking to EG about something else and decided to check this.
 
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