Who determines "virtual certainty"?

[cliveb]

Background: bounce game yesterday. I hit a drive left, towards our practice ground (which is not OOB). Walking down towards where I was sure my ball ended up, we see our teaching pro picking up practice balls. By the time I get to the location, he has returned back to his pupil (about 100 yards away). My ball is nowhere to be found. Since it was just a bounce game, everyone was happy for me to drop a replacement ball under rule 18-1: virtually certain ball has been removed by outside agency. (If this had been a comp, I'd probably have gone over to the pro and asked to look for my ball in his bag to make certain, but in a bounce game we just wanted to get on with it).

But whose responsibility is it to deem "virtual certainty"? Is it the player's (ie. mine)? If I am virtually certain, can another player in the group veto my decision?

 

[atticusfinch]

Background: bounce game yesterday. I hit a drive left, towards our practice ground (which is not OOB). Walking down towards where I was sure my ball ended up, we see our teaching pro picking up practice balls. By the time I get to the location, he has returned back to his pupil (about 100 yards away). My ball is nowhere to be found. Since it was just a bounce game, everyone was happy for me to drop a replacement ball under rule 18-1: virtually certain ball has been removed by outside agency. (If this had been a comp, I'd probably have gone over to the pro and asked to look for my ball in his bag to make certain, but in a bounce game we just wanted to get on with it).

But whose responsibility is it to deem "virtual certainty"? Is it the player's (ie. mine)? If I am virtually certain, can another player in the group veto my decision?

The decision and responsibility is solely with the player. Establishing facts can be with the input from others but the final decision is his.

 

[Val]

Unsure if this is a grey area or not but my take would be an agreement with those you are playing with that it is virtually certain, if no agreement then it's back to the tee I reckon

 

[Fyldewhite]

Unsure if this is a grey area or not but my take would be an agreement with those you are playing with that it is virtually certain, if no agreement then it's back to the tee I reckon

Agree that playing partners make a useful "sounding board" but there is a common misconception that "so long as we all agree" then XYZ can happen. Playing partners have no real say, it's always between you and the committee if there is anything to be cleared up. Best option here, as so often is the case is to play two balls and ask for a ruling afterwards.

 

[Colin L]

Unsure if this is a grey area or not but my take would be an agreement with those you are playing with that it is virtually certain, if no agreement then it's back to the tee I reckon

Go by what Atticus said. It is not a matter of reaching agreement: it is down to the player to decide.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

If on the other hand the partners disagree they have recourse via the committee which could result in disqualification from the comp due to an incorrect score being submitted. Don't expect. Christmas card though!

More difficult situation is in match play where any dispute must be resolved before you proceed. If no committee member available I presume you have to suspend the match pending a ruling.

 

[rulefan]

If on the other hand the partners disagree they have recourse via the committee which could result in disqualification from the comp due to an incorrect score being submitted. Don't expect. Christmas card though!

More difficult situation is in match play where any dispute must be resolved before you proceed. If no committee member available I presume you have to suspend the match pending a ruling.

1) If in stroke play the player is unsure, he should play two balls under rule 3-3. The committee will decide and there is no danger of a penalty

2) In match play, the problem does have to be resolved before proceeding. The player may play as he believes and his opponent may lodge a timely claim using rule 2-5. The committee will make a ruling later if he does.

 

[Tarkus1212]

A small diversion but if the practice ground is not OOB does that mean that no-one playing in a strokeplay comp can use it before teeing off?

 

[rulefan]

7-1b Exception: Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground or any practice area before starting a round or play-off is permitted.

Such an area should be specified by the committee.

 

[Tarkus1212]

7-1b Exception:Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground or any practice area before starting a round or play-off is permitted.

Such an area should be specified by the committee.

So they can practice putting and/or chipping but nothing more? Is this a danger of not making practice grounds OOB?

 

[cliveb]

A small diversion but if the practice ground is not OOB does that mean that no-one playing in a strokeplay comp can use it before teeing off?

At my club the practice ground is between the 8th and 9th fairways, and we are certainly allowed to practice on it on the day of a strokeplay competition.

Some time back I did query whether this means it should be OOB, but discovered that Rule 33-2c allows the committee to designate an area of the course to be available for practice if there is no practice area available outside the course.