White stakes!

[delc]

Playing in a fourball game this morning, one of my FC's hooked his second shot very nearly, but not quite, out of bounds. Before I could stop him he removed a white stake denoting the OOB line that was interfering with his area of play. When I pointed out that this was against the rules, I found myself in a minority of one! Fortunately the pro shop agreed with me.

 

[palindromicbob]

Playing in a fourball game this morning, one of my FC's hooked his second shot very nearly, but not quite, out of bounds. Before I could stop him he removed a white stake denoting the OOB line that was interfering with his area of play. When I pointed out that this was against the rules, I found myself in a minority of one! Fortunately the pro shop agreed with me.

Do you not carry the rule book with you?

 

[ruff-driver]

2 shot penalty for moving the post.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Its in the rules, But I dont agree with it.

Surely with stakes, once it has been determined that the ball is still in bounds, if the stake is in the way and it can be removed and put back in the same position easily, then what is the problem?

You are able to move & replace yardage marker posts,

I suppose the argument is that the removed post may not be replaced in exactly the same place and this alters the course for other players.

 

[delc]

Do you not carry the rule book with you?

I did, but the guys I was playing with were all seniors and didn't have their reading glasses with them, and they all thought I was wrong! What can you do?

 

[Fish]

Its in the rules, But I dont agree with it.

Surely with stakes, once it has been determined that the ball is still in bounds, if the stake is in the way and it can be removed and put back in the same position easily, then what is the problem?

You are able to move & replace yardage marker posts,

I suppose the argument is that the removed post may not be replaced in exactly the same place and this alters the course for other players.

Unlike the other examples you list, I think it's because it's a boundary post is why if can't be removed!

 

[delc]

Its in the rules, But I dont agree with it.

Surely with stakes, once it has been determined that the ball is still in bounds, if the stake is in the way and it can be removed and put back in the same position easily, then what is the problem?

You are able to move & replace yardage marker posts,

I suppose the argument is that the removed post may not be replaced in exactly the same place and this alters the course for other players.

I think the argument is that if you didn't define things defining OOB as fixed and immovable, players would start pulling out fence posts, etc.

 

[guest100718]

Its in the rules, But I dont agree with it.

Surely with stakes, once it has been determined that the ball is still in bounds, if the stake is in the way and it can be removed and put back in the same position easily, then what is the problem?

You are able to move & replace yardage marker posts,

I suppose the argument is that the removed post may not be replaced in exactly the same place and this alters the course for other players.

OOB stakes are not deemed obstructions so you cant move them.

 

[palindromicbob]

Its in the rules, But I dont agree with it.

Surely with stakes, once it has been determined that the ball is still in bounds, if the stake is in the way and it can be removed and put back in the same position easily, then what is the problem?

You are able to move & replace yardage marker posts,

I suppose the argument is that the removed post may not be replaced in exactly the same place and this alters the course for other players.

You can't move walls/fences etc that usually define OOB and aren't classed as immovable obstructions so no relief. Same should apply to anything defining OOB (and it does)

 

[palindromicbob]

I think the argument is that if you didn't define things defining OOB as fixed and immovable, players would start pulling out fence posts, etc.

Because they aren't defined as obstructions the relief afforded by rule 24 does not apply. Should be no need to define them as fixed and immovable

 

[atticusfinch]

once it has been determined that the ball is still in bounds, if the stake is in the way and it can be removed

The OB stake is not an obstruction and cannot be removed under rule 24. It is not a loose impediment and cannot be removed under rule 23.

 

[delc]

The OB stake is not an obstruction and cannot be removed under rule 24. It is not a loose impediment and cannot be removed under rule 23.

You also need to read the definition of Out of Bounds. BTW my FC's were all very experienced golfers, so you would think that they ought to know the rules!

 

[Colin L]

You also need to read the definition of Out of Bounds. BTW my FC's were all very experienced golfers, so you would think that they ought to know the rules!

Del, I’m sure Atticus has read the Definition many a time but I’m not sure what your point is. Is there something in the Definition that’s been missed?

There is consistency throughout the various rules relating to OOB stakes. An artificial object lying out of bounds cannot be an obstruction; objects defining OOB are themselves OOB and are therefore not obstructions; if an artificial object lying OOB is movable, you can take relief from it by moving it out of the way; if an artificial object lying OOB is immovable, you do not get relief; frequently OOB stakes are movable and so there is a specific rule deeming them to be fixed. All neatly interwoven.

 

[delc]

Del, I’m sure Atticus has read the Definition many a time but I’m not sure what your point is. Is there something in the Definition that’s been missed?

There is consistency throughout the various rules relating to OOB stakes. An artificial object lying out of bounds cannot be an obstruction; objects defining OOB are themselves OOB and are therefore not obstructions; if an artificial object lying OOB is movable, you can take relief from it by moving it out of the way; if an artificial object lying OOB is immovable, you do not get relief; frequently OOB stakes are movable and so there is a specific rule deeming them to be fixed. All neatly interwoven.

“Out of bounds’’ is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee.

When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts (excluding angled supports). When both stakes and lines are used to indicate out of bounds, the stakes identify out of bounds and the lines define out of bounds.
When out of bounds is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is out of bounds. The out of bounds line extends vertically upwards and downwards.

A ball is out of bounds when all of it lies out of bounds. A player may stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds.

Objects defining out of bounds such as walls, fences, stakes and railings are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed. Stakes identifying out of bounds are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed.

Note 1: Stakes or lines used to define out of bounds should be white.

Note 2: A Committee may make a Local Rule declaring stakes identifying but not defining out of bounds to obstructions.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

We have an internal out of bounds (added to stop people cutting a corner by playing onto another fairway). The post that define it are white on one side but green on the other as OOB only applies on one hole. So confusingly you can remove the post on one hole (green facing) but not on the other (white facing).

Causes confusion to visitors on some members.

 

[delc]

We have an internal out of bounds (added to stop people cutting a corner by playing onto another fairway). The post that define it are white on one side but green on the other as OOB only applies on one hole. So confusingly you can remove the post on one hole (green facing) but not on the other (white facing).

Causes confusion to visitors on some members.

The incident in the original posting did relate to an internal OOB post, but it did define OOB on the hole being played and therefore should not have been removed.

 

[Colin L]

“Out of bounds’’ is beyond the boundaries of the course ...........

Del, thank you so much for quoting the entire Definition of Out of Bounds. It was a revelation and I now realise where everyone has been getting this idea that you are not allowed to remove posts which define OOB.

On the matter of internal OOB, it makes sense to deem the posts to be immovable obstructions when playing the hole they do not apply to.

 

[CliveW]

Its in the rules, But I dont agree with it.

Surely with stakes, once it has been determined that the ball is still in bounds, if the stake is in the way and it can be removed and put back in the same position easily, then what is the problem?

You are able to move & replace yardage marker posts,

Not all courses allow the removal and replacement of yardage markers. In some instances, under Local Rules, they are deemed to be immovable obstructions from which relief should be taken under Rule 24-2.

 

[delc]

Del, thank you so much for quoting the entire Definition of Out of Bounds. It was a revelation and I now realise where everyone has been getting this idea that you are not allowed to remove posts which define OOB.

On the matter of internal OOB, it makes sense to deem the posts to be immovable obstructions when playing the hole they do not apply to.

Isn't it a fact and a rule rather than an idea? I did check and our club does not have a local rule as per Note 2. However you would have to hit a pretty wild shot on the next hole to come anywhere near the internal OOB posts.

 

[Colin L]

Isn't it a fact and a rule rather than an idea? I did check and our club does not have a local rule as per Note 2. However you would have to hit a pretty wild shot on the next hole to come anywhere near the internal OOB posts.

If I had called it a “strange notion”, perhaps the irony would have been more obvious?