What's the bigger difference?

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In your opinion what's the bigger difference in quality a 28 handicapper to your standard club pro, or club pro to tour golfer?

So average club pro is probably what scratch to 4 handicap? Obviously number wise 28 to scratch is bigger but in terms of difference what is bigger?
 
A 28 handicapper needs to get down to a 4 handicap to enroll into the PGA system to become a club pro. With time, effort, financial investment in lessons and some kind of natural ability, a large majority of 28 handicappers could get down to that level and enroll.

For a club pro or scratch golfer, to get to a bottom end tour pro level is a huge difference. If you look at a tour pro, he would have a handicap in the region on +8 to +10 at your local course. Or in other words he is of an ability that would enable him to shoot 9 under gross for a nett level par.

I've played with lads who didn't manage to make it on the mini tour and to see them play makes you wonder how they didn't make it. One of them said it was all about a couple of wedge shots every round and looking at his results, just a wedge shot knocked dead or a chip in would have seen him succeeding.

A lad I went to school and played golf with is a teaching pro. He has fantastic game and can make the ball do what ever he wants, well almost. What he can't do is make it go a long way and when I say that I mean 500 yards for him is a driver and 3 wood. Tour pros are hitting a driver and something around a 5 iron to a 7 iron to cover 500 yards. So his problem is distance and he really can't do a lot about it.

What I'm trying to say is that the step up to tour pro from club pro/top amateur is normally hampered by something that people really can't do anything about.
 
MadAdey said:
A 28 handicapper needs to get down to a 4 handicap to enroll into the PGA system to become a club pro. With time, effort, financial investment in lessons and some kind of natural ability, a large majority of 28 handicappers could get down to that level and enroll.

.
Click to expand...

Not so sure about that tbh.
 
MadAdey said:
For a club pro or scratch golfer, to get to a bottom end tour pro level is a huge difference. If you look at a tour pro, he would have a handicap in the region on +8 to +10 at your local course. Or in other words he is of an ability that would enable him to shoot 9 under gross for a nett level par
Click to expand...

It's not that much . Maybe for the bigger names I.e rory spieth etc .... But your standard run of the mill tour players are just more consistent and got the right result at the right times . The mini tours are full of great players . Eddie pepperal wasn't setting euro pro tour alight when all of a sudden he got an invite to a challenge tour event, won that one then gained his european tour card and qualified for us open 2 years ago . Similar story with a couple of other players. I think it's more a case of performing at the right time for most pro golfers . Obviously there is that little more consistency but the euro pro players that I saw all had the potential and no one really stood out . Apart from tyrell hatton !
 
Id say 28 to 4 is generally harder and most people never manage that. I played with a lad, then about 6 handicap and about 22 years old, a decent player but now he's on the European Tour but outside the top 120. I'm sure his game is massively better than it was the day I played with him but I know he wouldn't have beaten our club pro off level that day.
 
garyinderry said:
Not so sure about that tbh.
Click to expand...

But as I said Gary

"with time, effort, financial investment in lessons and some kind of natural ability"

I'm not saying that if you want it you can do it, you do need some kind of natural ability. I was just trying to point out that IMO to go to the next level of tour pro takes far mote than just the criteria I put above. There is normally just one thing that is missing and for all the effort you just can't get there.
 
walliams8 said:
It's not that much . Maybe for the bigger names I.e rory spieth etc .... But your standard run of the mill tour players are just more consistent and got the right result at the right times . The mini tours are full of great players . Eddie pepperal wasn't setting euro pro tour alight when all of a sudden he got an invite to a challenge tour event, won that one then gained his european tour card and qualified for us open 2 years ago . Similar story with a couple of other players. I think it's more a case of performing at the right time for most pro golfers . Obviously there is that little more consistency but the euro pro players that I saw all had the potential and no one really stood out . Apart from tyrell hatton !
Click to expand...
Apart from the lucky breaks it's also the financial pressure, if they can be picked up early and given financial security for a few years while they're on the under tours it can help immensley, they can concentrate on their game.
 
My opinion is it depends which tour golfer you are talking about. If it is someone in the world top 20 then this is the bigger gap. If it is someone who is scraping a living at the cut off point for tour qualification then the reverse applies in my view.
 
Wow.....quite a bit of nonsense being spouted here!

Firstly, a 28hcp basically has very little control over where his/her ball is going so comparing them to a club pro (minimum 4hcp) is a bit off the mark. The majority of club pros get down to a lot lower than 4 before enrolling, often scratch or better.

A mini tour golfer will regularly shoot 3-5 under par round your normal, decent length and quality of course. On a good day they will go lower, higher on a bad day. Certainly not 9-10 under as quoted.

So.....on a good day, your club pro will have a chance to go as low as a tour golfer but a 28hcp has absolutely no chance of even getting anywhere near level par, so there is your answer.
 
drive4show said:
Wow.....quite a bit of nonsense being spouted here!Firstly, a 28hcp basically has very little control over where his/her ball is going so comparing them to a club pro (minimum 4hcp) is a bit off the mark. The majority of club pros get down to a lot lower than 4 before enrolling, often scratch or better.A mini tour golfer will regularly shoot 3-5 under par round your normal, decent length and quality of course. On a good day they will go lower, higher on a bad day. Certainly not 9-10 under as quoted. So.....on a good day, your club pro will have a chance to go as low as a tour golfer but a 28hcp has absolutely no chance of even getting anywhere near level par, so there is your answer.
Click to expand...
On a good day doesn't count. Most club pro's don't regularly shoot 3 or 5 under. No one is expecting a 28 handicapper to shoot level par, but the improvement necessary to go from 28 to club pro is less than going from club pro to tour pro IMHO. Don't get me wrong, 28 to cat 1 is extremely hard, but the step up to making a living out of it is a bigger leap.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
Average club pro is more like 16-18 h'cap, but using your example, Cat 1 to top level pro is a bigger jump IMHO
Click to expand...

Not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean the average club pro compared to a tour pro is like a 16 h'capper to a scratch player, you're probably not far wrong. If most European comps are won with scores circa -10, with the majority of the field closer to level par and club pro's not even good enough to make the tour I guess that makes the club pro, by comparison a mid teens handicapper.

If, however, you think most club pro's by virtue of their lack of playing probably play closer to mid teens compared to their members... certainly not my experience. The scratch league I used to play in saw the club pro's going out as #1 match, with 7 club members going out afterwards. One summer we were without a pro, and I often played #1. I didn't do too bad against most of them, taking a few good scalps, but there were a few that totally annihilated me my worst ever matchplay defeat against one of them, 8&7.
 
There are so many variables in each case that it's impossible to compare:

Is the 28 handicapper one who plays at 28 over par and has an accurate handicap, or someone who plays significantly higher but can't have a higher handicap?
Is the club pro one who plays competitively (locally, regionally internationally), plays club matches, a former tour pro (we had DJ Russell at my club when I was a kid), or just a glorified shopkeep'?
Is the tour pro from a mini tour, challenge tour, European Tour or PGA tour and does he make cuts, get wins, or struggle to make a living?
 
I'd agree about the high handicapper just hoping to punt the ball anywhere close, and the pro being able to knock it anywhere they like. At this stage I'm happy to get it on the green in two let alone knock it 4-6ft from the pin. That level of skill where you no longer worry about striking a ball the right way. It's just something you do consistently.
 
I thought this would get quite abstract answers- lets say for talking sake an actual 28 handicapper (or 27 to end any questions if it's actually higher)

I am really too new to golf to give an accurate opinion but I would have thought The difference between top tour pro(either European or USPGA) and club PGA pro would be hugely bigger than a 27 handicapper to club PGA pro.

I suppose I didn't distinctly mention EPT or USPGA tour pro's which is what I meant but then the challenge tours etc also play a significant part in question as a bit like football from amateur, to junior(lower league in England) to championships, premier league are all marginally incremental differences but when you compare the top to the bottom it's huge
 
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