What would do in my position?

[ferrijt]

I am the Men’s section Handicap Secretary at my golf club.

The Club Manager/Owner, Club Professional and Greenkeeper apparently agreed that a player, required for an away match, on the same day as a home qualifying competition, could play the home competition the previous day. At the same time other players also asked this and apparently were told it was only for the player who was wanted for the away competition.

This was not previously declared as an Alternate day competition.

The score the player returned would win the competition and cause an estimated handicap reduction from 5.6 to 5.2.

So can his score count for the competition and/or for handicap purposes?

 

[Region3]

Sounds dodgy to me, but if the club is going to allow it then he surely has to play the away match (unless it's scratch) of 5 instead of 6.

If they wanted his medal round to count but not have his hc adjusted for the match I'd want nothing to do with it and would step down if necessary.

 

[ferrijt]

Sounds dodgy to me, but if the club is going to allow it then he surely has to play the away match (unless it's scratch) of 5 instead of 6.

Well spotted Region 3. I had not appreciated he may have played off the wrong handicap for the away match. I will check the next time I see the player.

 

[duncan mackie]

tough one - and they happen!

1. the issue of whether he is a valid competitor in the competition isn't yours - it's the responsibility of the competition committee (normally the competition secretary but I really recommend that it's as formally documented as the handicap committee which, as you know is normally the handicap sec, except when there is a formal requirement for it to be the committee). You pick up the pieces after that.
2. given the issues all round my solution would be to run 2 seperate comps, with him winning Friday, and the appropriate CSS calc and adjustment to his handicap, and then a seperate competition on Saturday. This is as 'right' or 'wrong' as anything else to my mind - on the basis of what's been posted - and has the benefit of covering most comeback from most quarters!
3. if the competition committee say he's not in the comp Friday because he hasn't met the CoC ie played on the Saturday, then you will have to check with your GU rep (James C if you are EGU) as to whether you should consider the Friday card as a supplemental on the basis that (1) he entered before going out (2) played a measured course and (3) returned a valid card. Within the principles of CONGU I would have thought it should count.
4. if the player didn't play off 5 the following day in the match ...........

It's a mess - go back to basics and get everyone else making the decisions.

 

[pbrown7582]

Lucky you a no win situation! Personally I would be unhappy with one rule for a player who's wanted for a match but not for others who want an alternate day doesn't seem fair.

 

[BTatHome]

Wow, I can't think of a single competition at our club (possibly the club champs but that's over 2 days anyway) that would get the manager/pro/greenkeeper involved in such a way. Is this person really that important ?

We ofteN have people involved in club matches missing qualifiers, nobody seems that bothered !

 

[garyinderry]

i would not be happy to hear that someone beat me in a competition and he got to play on a different day unless i was given the option of playing on either day. outrage, scandle etc etc !

 

[ferrijt]

Thanks guys for your replies.

As suggested by Duncan I have emailed the EGU.

I will let you know what he has to say.

 

[Linda]

All sounds a bit dodgy to me. Perhaps someone else should play.

 

[thecraw]

Could he not just declare the score as a supplementary card???

Cant see how it could ever count as a qualifying competition as surely he'll be playing a different course. If the greenkeeper cuts the greens, moves the markers etc then its a non counter for a start!

 

[ferrijt]

Hi thecraw,

Thanks for your reply. He may indeed just be able to declare his score as a Supplementary one. I wish I was sure.

On your second point, then I believe although I stand to be corrected, that greens can be cut, pins/tees moved etc. The main and possibly only requirement is that a separate CSS is calculated for the alternate day and probably play off the same colour tees.

 

[thecraw]

I was under the impression that you can't move markers or pins during a competition. Therefore by him playing the day before IF the greens staff have moved pins or markers for the following day his score can't count for that competition as he's played a different course!

I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me.

 

[Foxholer]

Certainly sounds like you should establish who controls/can authorise what at your place!

FWIW. My view is that the round counts for handicap but may not be allowed in the comp - depending on whether the pins and tees changed significantly - I believe it's the length that matters, not positons. Ladies do have Alternate Days of course, but that's a different issue!

Of course, as you are Handicap Secretary rather than the Competition one, you don't really have a problem - it's the Competition one that has the 'problem' - you are actually a 'victim'! Calculating the CSS with/without the guy is up to them and ensuring he played off 5 is the player's responsibility.

It'll be interesting to see what the answer is.

 

[bobmac]

I know the medal is on Saturday but I'd like to play it on Friday because

• The weather forecast is better on Friday
• HID want to go shopping on Saturday
• I've got to baby sit
• I've got the dentist
• I'm out on the town on Friday night so will be hung over on Saturday
• I'm getting married

What next

 

[MadAdey]

I know the medal is on Saturday but I'd like to play it on Friday because

• The weather forecast is better on Friday
• HID want to go shopping on Saturday
• I've got to baby sit
• I've got the dentist
• I'm out on the town on Friday night so will be hung over on Saturday
• I'm getting married

What next

Nail hit on the head there Bob. How can you let someone play the comp the day before? We all have good reasons to play it the day before. He could have gone out played it in glorious sunshine with easy pin positions. Then the people who are playing hte following day have to play in hurricane winds and horizontal rain with tougher pin positons because the green keepers moved them for the comp on the Friday evening...

 

[rosecott]

I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me.

They very often do!

 

[rosecott]

Nail hit on the head there Bob. How can you let someone play the comp the day before? We all have good reasons to play it the day before. He could have gone out played it in glorious sunshine with easy pin positions. Then the people who are playing hte following day have to play in hurricane winds and horizontal rain with tougher pin positons because the green keepers moved them for the comp on the Friday evening...

But it's perfectly OK for a club to run a competition over 2 days provided a separate CSS is calculated for each day. It's another matter if a club decrees that the field on the first of the 2 days is limited to one named individual.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Nail hit on the head there Bob. How can you let someone play the comp the day before? We all have good reasons to play it the day before. He could have gone out played it in glorious sunshine with easy pin positions. Then the people who are playing hte following day have to play in hurricane winds and horizontal rain with tougher pin positons because the green keepers moved them for the comp on the Friday evening...

Monthly ladies medal at my club are split - you can play Friday or Saturday. You have to declare whether you're a Friday or Saturday player but, in practice, can readily change if it suits. And yip, chances are greens will have been cut and pins moved by the Saturday. It's far from ideal.

Personally, when I'm able, I like to play on the Friday - CSS is nearly always higher than on Saturday.

 

[ferrijt]

Well Ladies and Gents,

I have spoken to my Area Authority and this situation has happened before, perhaps not exactly the way this has, but similar enough. Normally it is when a County event clashes with a local comp.

The advice is to allow the players score for the competition and for handicap purposes. It is agreed that other decisions could be made but it is suggested this is the most common and equitable outcome.

Thank you for your replies and I hope you enjoyed the thread.

 

[duncan mackie]

ty for the response.