What do you think?

[DaveM]

Really bored yesterday. Stuck in the house. So put on an old John Jacob's dvd on. This got me thinking on a few points.

With it being an old dvd, he was using "persimmon woods etc". He also explained the golfswing so simply.

So to my questions?
Do the modern GI clubs hinder beginers from learning a proper swing sooner?
Do we over complecate the golfswing?

Thinking about it my answer would be yes to both of them. So what do you guys think?

 

[TonyN]

Why would a beginner want to learn a swing that suits clubs that went out with the videotape?

Equipment moves on, as do swings. Why not just learn the basics with a club they are going to use on the course.

To many beginners just buy what ever grabs there attention, don't have lessons and blame the bad shots on the club anyway.

So my answers are,
1)No, not having lessons does.
2)Some people do by following answer number 1

 

[needmoreclub]

Dave,
I've got a Bob Rotella cd where he states that handicaps are still averaging the same in America as they were 20 years ago, so if that's accurate it would mean modern equipment doesn't help your scoring overall. Strange though as i remember trying to hit a set of blades when i was younger and couldn't get the ball airborne. So i think GI irons do help you strike the ball better but not score better.

 

[DaveM]

Why would a beginner want to learn a swing that suits clubs that went out with the videotape?

Equipment moves on, as do swings. Why not just learn the basics with a club they are going to use on the course.

To many beginners just buy what ever grabs there attention, don't have lessons and blame the bad shots on the club anyway.

So my answers are,
1)No, not having lessons does.
2)Some people do by following answer number 1

I'm not saying use the old clubs. Just that you had to have a fair swing to use them. Some really wierd swings these days but some hit the ball ok.

Scoring and hitting the ball are two differant things.

 

[CMAC]

Do the modern GI clubs hinder beginers from learning a proper swing sooner?
Do we over complecate the golfswing?

I totally agree in YES to both questions.

Funnily enough I had a similar conversation with a PGA tour pro recently when I told him I learned with blades and I'll teach my son with blades (he totally agreed) if you can hit them you can hit anything.

John Jacobs is an excellent teacher who simplifies the swing- Still read his book I had as a kid-

Equipment has moved on but swings are swings, I think Hogans swing would work with todays equipment dont you?

At the end of the day no matter what GI club you have a bad swing will produce a bad result, no technology in the world is going to correct a bad swing

 

[TonyN]

I'm not saying use the old clubs. Just that you had to have a fair swing to use them. Some really wierd swings these days but some hit the ball ok.

Scoring and hitting the ball are two differant things.

I know scoring and hitting the ball are two different things...

If you want to learn to hit the ball well, it takes time and effort. How you dedicate the time and effort is really up to the individual and how it suits them.

I'd say for most. Lessons (learning the right things) and practice is what is needed. It doesn't matter what equipment you use, if you have a good swing, you'll be able to hit anything, and nothing will hinder you.

So, if you learn with blades and you learn the right things great. If you learn with GI's and you learn the right things then you should still be able to hit the blades.

Ask any pro to hit any club, GI, Blade, a proper Wooden driver, I'll bet they hit them all well. I bet the modern stuff goes better though!

It's not the tools, its the tradesman!

 

[DaveM]

I totally agree in YES to both questions.

Funnily enough I had a similar conversation with a PGA tour pro recently when I told him I learned with blades and I'll teach my son with blades (he totally agreed) if you can hit them you can hit anything.

John Jacobs is an excellent teacher who simplifies the swing- Still read his book I had as a kid-

Equipment has moved on but swings are swings, I think Hogans swing would work with todays equipment dont you?

At the end of the day no matter what GI club you have a bad swing will produce a bad result, no technology in the world is going to correct a bad swing

Yes I still have his book. The dvd I copied from the vidios so I could still use them. Glad someone agrees with me. Some seem to be missing the point I am trying to make. Learnt on real woods and blades myself to.

 

[Snelly]

Yes and yes.

 

[TonyN]

Yes I still have his book. The dvd I copied from the vidios so I could still use them. Glad someone agrees with me. Some seem to be missing the point I am trying to make. Learnt on real woods and blades myself to.

How am I 'missing the point'? Because I don't agree with you?

Do the modern GI clubs hinder beginers from learning a proper swing sooner? What is a proper swing anyway? ''Some really wierd swings these days but some hit the ball ok.'' Who says whats proper if the ball is hit ok?

Do we over complecate the golfswing? Who are 'we'? If you mean the general golfing amature, then everyone is different so it can't be answered correctly surely?


I'll share my oppinion again, maybe trying to make it clearer. GI irons don't hinder your progress, it would be learning the wrong technique that would. If you have a sound technique, the equipment wouldn't make a difference.

 

[DaveM]

Not aimed at you Tony. I think that most of us overthink the golf swing. I also think we are both saying more or less the samething. But in a differant way.

 

[Khamelion]

Do the modern GI clubs hinder beginers from learning a proper swing sooner?
Do we over complecate the golfswing?

As I've said many times, I only started playing again this year, I started with a Christy O'Connor 1 wood as my driver, I now have a Taylormade R11.

I have had lessons and I have improved a lot, but not so much that I still slice the ball when I drive, I know why, I just can't seem to get my head around it.

Anyway, with the O'Connor wood I slice the ball, with the R11 I slice it further.

So, do modern clubs hinder a beginners swing? No I don't think so, a clubs is a club is a club, the only thing that has changed with irons is the loft, other than that the rest is pretty much standard.

DO we over complicate the golf swing? Yes perhaps we do, there are numerous magazines, dvd's, forums and pro's all who have their method of telling you how to swing and hit the ball, the result being many beginners get their heads filled with all sorts of contradicting advice, this just confuses and yes overly complicates the swing.

cheers
Dave

 

[CMAC]

Do the modern GI clubs hinder beginers from learning a proper swing sooner? What is a proper swing anyway?

GI irons don't hinder your progress,

you make some good points there Tony and I dont think many would disagree with you, the caveat is that the modern technology fights against you when you try to be creative in hitting high/low/hook/slice type shots, also the same 'feedback' thru the head isnt there with the major GI clubs
just my opinion and thoughts though

 

[Khamelion]

you make some good points there Tony and I dont think many would disagree with you, the caveat is that the modern technology fights against you when you try to be creative in hitting high/low/hook/slice type shots, also the same 'feedback' thru the head isnt there with the major GI clubs
just my opinion and thoughts though

My irons are 40+ years old and as my teaching pro told me, if I can learn to hit them then I'll see a big difference when I upgrade.

I'm thinking though I don't want to upgrade, I mean my 4 irons plays like a modern 5, my 5 a 6 and so on and what with practice at the driving range and GPS devices giving me yardage reports, I know how far I hit each one. Granted they are not very forgiving but give me a modern club with the same loft as one of my old clubs and I dare say any shot off the sweet spot with either won't show that much change.

The difference arrives when you are a little off center, with the older clubs your hands sting with the newer clubs the ball still goes a good distance.

I guess the main difference with using the older clubs is that I have to learn to become a good striker of the ball which cannot be a bad thing.

cheers
Dave